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Why is Bruce Lee considered such an incredible mixed martial artist?

champbless2 said:
He is as good real life fighter as a Stevan Seagal

Put him into cage with UFC fighters of his size and he gets destroyed real quick.
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I don't think so, he is doing arm bars and wrestling in footage, plus his reflxes, balance, strength and striking were amazing.

Plus he is tiny. I think he is easy the 135lb champ, and for someone back then doing arm bars and shit, it's pretty cool.
 
in the liver said:
its impossible for me to believe that there werent many many people back then who practised more than one martial art. a boxer who used to wrestle, a wrestler who tried boxing, a guy who did tkd as a kid, moved house and there was no tkd so he switched to karate...a boxer who thought the martial arts movies were interesting and started going to a karate class

and there you have it. mixed martial arts
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Ya but they never really tested or showed their skills in a fight where they were allowed to grapple and strike. Outside of vale tudo, this was a rare thing that wasnt even popular in the 90s until the UFC and maybe a bit earlier with shooto in Japan. Guys who did that were rare. Bruce lee helped popularize that. Other people think that mixing kung fu with tkd = mma. It has to mix both grappling and striking.
 
The Chosen said:
There is footage of him sparring
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There is footage of me sparring also. But weirdly no one in 40 years will watch it, and say "wow this guys was such a skilled martial artist. look at how he clowns his sparring partners". It has nothing to do with real competition and most of the stuff he did would not work vs bigger men/heavy grappling styles like sambo e.g.
If you cant admit that Bruce Lee was mainly an entertainer, show man and merchant, who sold his persona, "philosophy" and eastern martial arts to the western public at the right time, when there was a lot of interest in such things, then you learned nothing in the past 40 years of MMA.

He wasnt even a pioneer in what he did. There were hundreds before him who traveled the world in the attempt to learn different martial arts. He was just the first to popularize it.
And thats an achievment on his own. A lot of the success of MMA has to be attributed to that. But the way some people draw him as this mystical figure is nonsense.
 
PeacePipe said:
I don't think so, he is doing arm bars and wrestling in footage, plus his reflxes, balance, strength and striking were amazing.

Plus he is tiny. I think he is easy the 135lb champ, and for someone back then doing arm bars and shit, it's pretty cool.
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Hate to tell you, but armbars and other submission holds where known all over Japan, Russia, eastern Europe e.g.
Its really nothing special. Judo and Sambo existed before Bruce Lee. As did attempts to put the best aspects of MMA together.
I also have no idea how you could judge his reflexes, balance and strenght from decade old sparring footage, but yeah.
Bruce Lee was mainly an entertainer and a really good one as this thread shows. Doesnt mean he was a legit martial artist. But far from the only one at that time, like still many people believe.
 

budget Wonderboy, he would get maul by an average crotch sniffer
 
Jojomojo said:
There is footage of me sparring also. But weirdly no one in 40 years will watch it, and say "wow this guys was such a skilled martial artist. look at how he clowns his sparring partners". It has nothing to do with real competition and most of the stuff he did would not work vs bigger men/heavy grappling styles like sambo e.g.
If you cant admit that Bruce Lee was mainly an entertainer, show man and merchant, who sold his persona, "philosophy" and eastern martial arts to the western public at the right time, when there was a lot of interest in such things, then you learned nothing in the past 40 years of MMA.

He wasnt even a pioneer in what he did. There were hundreds before him who traveled the world in the attempt to learn different martial arts. He was just the first to popularize it.
And thats an achievment on his own. A lot of the success of MMA has to be attributed to that. But the way some people draw him as this mystical figure is nonsense.
Click to expand...
Well all I said is that he had legit skills and you spazzed out on me.
 
Jojomojo said:
Hate to tell you, but armbars and other submission holds where known all over Japan, Russia, eastern Europe e.g.
Its really nothing special. Judo and Sambo existed before Bruce Lee. As did attempts to put the best aspects of MMA together.
I also have no idea how you could judge his reflexes, balance and strenght from decade old sparring footage, but yeah.
Bruce Lee was mainly an entertainer and a really good one as this thread shows. Doesnt mean he was a legit martial artist. But far from the only one at that time, like still many people believe.
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I guess his magic was in inspiring so many people to take up martial arts. Plus his judo was legit, he was taught by legit grappler Gene Lebell. He was a unique blend of east and west that never really existed at a time, and I think that mixing of eastern martial arts and western was also part of the label.

His reflexes and speed are legendary, go watch some youtube. And of course he didn't fight, yeah he was an entertaininer.

But why would he? What org would he even fight in? Muay thai for $100 a fight? Thai fighters don't even get paid well now.

People need to get over his real fighting experience and appreciate him for his incredible skills, but mainly, his blend of eastern and western cultures.

Go watch one of his movies, i guarantee you'll be entertained. Even look at this clip, he fights a giant and even uses an arm triangle. It's entertaining AF.

 
Yesterday I read an article abou a study saying that humanity IQ is getting worse, instead of improving.

This topic is an excellent indicator of this decline.
 
Booksmasher said:
We DO know how 'good' he was....he sucked because he never competed. Hes just an actor, thats it....
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You're viewing Lee in the context of modern times. What was he supposed to compete in that would have satisfied you? Points tournaments were the norm back then. He was too old to start boxing professionally and certainly wasn't going to seek out obscure fighting scenes with a new wife and family to raise. Professional fighting is all about making money, after all..

There is a difference between the myth of Bruce Lee as some invincible fighting machine who could beat anybody any time and his actual skills. The myth is just silly but there's a middle ground. His contemporaries say his skills were totally legit. His stature as a martial arts legend is due to his influence as a teacher and his movies which continue to create interest in the martial arts, even to this day. Look at all the fighters today that say Bruce Lee inspired them. He was dead before any of them were even born.

One of his contemporaries (who trained with Lee) was Joe Lewis who pioneered full contact kickboxing in the US. He said Bruce Lee's skills were legit. Many other contemporaries have said it also and they talk about how they trained for real fights. Ron van Cleef who fought in the early UFC at 51 years old also said Lee was legit and if he had been around today he thought he could have been a top guy in the lighter weight classes if he had devoted his time to fighting.

https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Ron-Van-Clief-Where-Is-He-Now-18699
While Lee is mainly known for his many martial arts films, he was also interested in grappling and had begun integrating it into his fighting philosophy, under judo legend Gene LeBell.

“He was a mixed martial artist, he was grappling back then,” Van Clief said.

And how would he rate the legendary Lee if given the opportunity to train and compete today?
At 51, Ron van Clief took
on Royce Gracie at UFC 4.
“I think if he put his mind to do it, he would've been an excellent lightweight, as good as any of the lightweight MMA guys around. He was tough, he really was tough. Most people didn’t realize that, he could take it and dish it out. It’s kind of rare in any weight division.”

Bottom line is between some random kid on Sherdog and actual contemporaries who trained with Lee, I think I'll believe them, thanks.
 
Last edited:
Bacco said:
He's not, but he's a popular worldwide pop culture figure bigger than anything MMA ever produced, so immense following

I also think his role in modern MMA birth is incredibly overrated
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The first statement is true and the second is false. Lee did more than anyone else to popularize martial arts in the U.S. and worldwide. There was even a proto-MMA "tournament" in what may have been his most famous movie. He wasn't an MMA fighter (there was no such thing in the U.S. at the time), but he played a huge role in popularizing martial arts. He also recognized the limitations of some traditional martial arts and saw the need to blend grappling, boxing, etc. into fighting. He also deserves credit for that.
 
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egk said:
You're viewing Lee in the context of modern times. What was he supposed to compete in back than that would have satisfied you? Points tournaments were the norm back then. He was too old to start boxing professionally and certainly wasn't going to seek out obscure fighting scenes with a new wife and family to raise. Professional fighting is all about making money, after all..

There is a difference between the myth of Bruce Lee as some invincible fighting machine who could beat anybody any time and his actual skills. The myth is just silly but there's a middle ground. His contemporaries say his skills were totally legit. His stature as a martial arts legend is due to his influence as a teacher and his movies which continue to create interest in the martial arts, even to this day. Look at all the fighters today that say Bruce Lee inspired them. He was dead before any of them were even born.

One of his contemporaries (who trained with Lee) was Joe Lewis who pioneered full contact kickboxing in the US. He said Bruce Lee's skills were legit. Many other contemporaries have said it also and they talk about how they trained for real fights. Ron van Cleef who fought in the early UFC at 51 years old also said Lee was legit and if he had been around today he thought he could have been a top guy in the lighter weight classes if he had devoted his time to fighting.

https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Ron-Van-Clief-Where-Is-He-Now-18699
While Lee is mainly known for his many martial arts films, he was also interested in grappling and had begun integrating it into his fighting philosophy, under judo legend Gene LeBell.

“He was a mixed martial artist, he was grappling back then,” Van Clief said.

And how would he rate the legendary Lee if given the opportunity to train and compete today?
At 51, Ron van Clief took
on Royce Gracie at UFC 4.
“I think if he put his mind to do it, he would've been an excellent lightweight, as good as any of the lightweight MMA guys around. He was tough, he really was tough. Most people didn’t realize that, he could take it and dish it out. It’s kind of rare in any weight division.”

Bottom line is between some random kid on Sherdog and actual contemporaries who trained with Lee, I think I'll believe them, thanks.
Click to expand...

Very well put. Sadly, very few here want to give credit to anyone except the Gracies for popularizing MMA.
 
Not proven, but like others have said - with his dedication, reflexes, speed in this day and age I'd think he could do pretty well.
Even for proven athletes people are about the time they live in and shit on anybody in the past so I'm not shocked people would give him zero respect.

Just give the man respect for what he was.. Dedicated to his craft, in great shape, put on some good movies, etc. He has to be proven in a sport where it's advanced so far Arvloski is still winning fights against young HWs?.. Another discussion that is dumb.
 
I once had a discussion with an amateur kickboxer who claimed Bruce Lee could punch harder than George Foreman. Some people are insane about him for some reason.
 
Bruce Lee was way ahead of his time. His athleticism, agility, speed, strength, etc can adapt to any fighting style if trained.

He was a mixed martial artist by fight IQ. He said to take the moves that work from each martial arts, practice it and use it. Long ago before his time and up until the early 90’s, lots of martial artists were taught and to only be stuck to train one martial arts.

If there was no Bruce Lee, there would be no MMA as of today. There would be karate, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, judo, wrestling and other competitions. Sure, there was Vale Tudo; that competition would always look like a BJJ guy versus a striker just to prove how superior their style is.

If Bruce Lee was not a proven fighter, he would be the greatest teacher/trainer to any MMA fighter. I can see him not only physically preparing his fighters, but also mentally prepare them with his deep philosophy.
 
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