Why Does the UFC Test for PEDS?

[Arrrrgh]

Sorry guys, normally my threads are like 5 replies, a decent discussion and then closed before they hit a page. I'd reply to you all but I just don't have time.

That said it's cool everybody is talking about this even if they disagree with my points.

I still don't see an objective reason to ban ped use. There are a lot of assumptions of misuse and abuse and WWF examples but I'd just like to remind everyone that they are very different sports. This one fighters compete about 4x per year at most as opposed to every weekend and also need to stick to weight classes that limit the potential advantages of juicing to the gills as they say. Furthermore, this is a competitive sport, WWF is a staged performance. Guys perform with a lot more injuries (and a shot in the leg to dull the pain) in WWF all the time. I'm not advocating that at all.

PEDs are a tool. They don't magically make you stronger or a better fighter. Without work they do nothing but modify your hormone levels. You might grow some gyno with test and no PCT but you won't grow muscles with every steroid in the book if you dont train.

They allow you to train longer and extend your career. Which allows fighters more opportunities to earn and create a legacy.

It also allows late starters to play catch up on the physical deficiencies and be able to compete. The sport is about who can win in a fight under a minimal set of rules. Telling fighters they cant take PEDs that every other guy at your local gym can take is silly. These guys have to choose to stop fighting, not just because fighting is hurting their long term health but also because if they stop they can get a script where they can feel like they are 20 again.

I'm 36. I've taken test and some other drugs. That's my bias.

For those saying it will just lead to misuse and abuse, we have that with advanced testing already. We had that before USADA. Nothing has changed except more cancelled fights and shorter careers.

Will injuries increase with ped use? My entire point is we have the data. Someone should check. The UFC/USADA should hire an independent consulting firm with an analytics department, give them the data and charge them with examining just those things. If it objectively makes the fighters safer to ban the drugs, ban them I say. If we need 5 more years of data because USADA is so new, I accept that as well.

TLDR;
I thought it was a convo worth having. Glad many of you did too.

 

[Kenny95]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076311/

Care to elaborate on that protein shake thing your doctor told you? Because your doctor may be a moron and you need to stop listening to him.

Well I am an engineer and a lawyer and I got about halfway before I hit this gem and the report was not gonna make a U-Turn after this. This is the author's own thoughts not a quotation from someone else that he was going to refute.

"Regarding the potential for testicular dysfunction, the threat that AAS use poses to future fertility and proper Sertoli and Leydig cell function cannot be overstated. Multiple studies have documented long-term hypogonadism stemming from prior AAS use"

And the protein drinking thing is real. My doctor quoted a study from the 90s (outdated yeah but still reference) that showed 70% of protein drinks have illicit substances in them. I'm not surprised with how many college athletes were popped for ostarine last year. If those substances are present in small quantities, then they would have a small impact on sperm count. So the gym bros taking SUPER MASS NOXX XXX MUSCLE GAINER are probably hurting their testes. Fax bro. Their balls aren't gonna fall off but they may have a small measurable different, let's just say it's 2-5% as a made up number. He has a PHD medical license.

 

[Deleted member 510671]

Because it's unfair to the guys who don't want to do steroids that can potentially harm long term health. Pretty simple.

 

[Humongo]

Well I am an engineer and a lawyer and I got about halfway before I hit this gem and the report was not gonna make a U-Turn after this. This is the author's own thoughts not a quotation from someone else that he was going to refute.

"Regarding the potential for testicular dysfunction, the threat that AAS use poses to future fertility and proper Sertoli and Leydig cell function cannot be overstated. Multiple studies have documented long-term hypogonadism stemming from prior AAS use"

And the protein drinking thing is real. My doctor quoted a study from the 90s (outdated yeah but still reference) that showed 70% of protein drinks have illicit substances in them. I'm not surprised with how many college athletes were popped for ostarine last year. If those substances are present in small quantities, then they would have a small impact on sperm count. So the gym bros taking SUPER MASS NOXX XXX MUSCLE GAINER are probably hurting their testes. Fax bro. Their balls aren't gonna fall off but they may have a small measurable different, let's just say it's 2-5% as a made up number. He has a PHD medical license.

Did you read the conclusions or even what the text is about, retard, or you just hand picked the one sentence that agrees with what you were saying and ignored the rest? Bodybuilders have been using hcg to get children for decades, but yeah, you are an engineer and a lawyer lmao
And on the protein shakes thing... don't make me laugh. You mean that other substances caused the problems, not the actual protein shakes. If your country doesn't have standards for what is put in your supplements it's not anyone's fault but yours. I'm pretty sure that my protein shakes don't have steroids in it lmao, they are literally whey protein and shit to give it texture and taste. Probably you and your phd doctor are mixing it up with when supplement companies sold legal pro-hormones back in the day wich were basically oral steroids.

You must be a pretty shitty lawyer lmao

 

[Dionysian]

Except other fighters are pulsing. And jones continued to while being tested frequently and by multiple different testing agencies. The only explanation though from some is he must still be using.....instead of validating pulsing.

And the science youre asking for is an impossible ask given the illegality of dhcmt substances and the lack of long term controlled studies.

They have observations that validate the theory and no better alternative theory.

But you’re mind is made up and youre not open to the theory being correct. At least I don’t think you are.

Who are the other fighters cited as "pulsing"?

No, I don't think it is impossible to get science for pretty much anything. We have long-term studies on illegal drugs despite them being illegal. We know the potential downsides of cannibalism despite not setting up studies where people eat each other. I'm sure there's a plethora of bodybuilders/recreational users that can help gather data from an organization that is looking to get some. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to test 20 people that had tbol in them to see how many "pulse" a year after the fact.

I'm open to any theory being correct, WITH EVIDENCE. Without evidence, or even worse... from someone masquerading "science" as anti-science (intentionally not testing a hypothesis)... yeah, I'll make up my mind pretty hard on that as being full of it.

 

[Spiritual Sight]

So they can decide who gets busted and who gets a free pass

 

[kflo]

Who are the other fighters cited as "pulsing"?

No, I don't think it is impossible to get science for pretty much anything. We have long-term studies on illegal drugs despite them being illegal. We know the potential downsides of cannibalism despite not setting up studies where people eat each other. I'm sure there's a plethora of bodybuilders/recreational users that can help gather data from an organization that is looking to get some. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to test 20 people that had tbol in them to see how many "pulse" a year after the fact.

I'm open to any theory being correct, WITH EVIDENCE. Without evidence, or even worse... from someone masquerading "science" as anti-science (intentionally not testing a hypothesis)... yeah, I'll make up my mind pretty hard on that as being full of it.

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2020...ahal-hill-deron-winn-drug-suspensions-ufc-mma

Also of note from Thursday’s meeting, Ryan Benoit and Roman Dolidze were granted temporary licenses by the NAC in response to both UFC fighters’ recurring issues with trace amounts of Turinabol pulsing in their system, which is similar to the case of former UFC light heavyweight champion Jon Jones. Both Benoit and Dolidze previously were suspended by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.
​

also: https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/3/...oping-case-similar-to-one-involving-jon-jones
Also:see grant Dawson

so yes there are others. So it’s really just a question as to whether you accept that they have observations and whether they have sufficient evidence. Or alternative explanations that are more likely.


And you think it’s science and possible to get volunteer people who would claim to have used tbol within some time period and have them tested over an extended period of time under various controlled conditions?

again you don’t have a better theory to explain their test results based on what we know. You keep acting as if you do and that it’s scientifically based.