Why does shogun?

[jayo2k]

Because Shogun is an OG.


Modern fighters are desperate to fight smaller men.

And by doing so, they all fight men their size because everyone cut...
And that the hypocrisy of cutting and criticizing fighters missing weight because let us be real... Fighters bitch about opponent not making the weight but it is not like on fight day they weight 205, 185... it just mean that that their opponent did not make the weight long before the fight...

 

[Paolo Delutis]

And by doing so, they all fight men their size because everyone cut...
And that the hypocrisy of cutting and criticizing fighters missing weight because let us be real... Fighters bitch about opponent not making the weight but it is not like on fight day they weight 205, 185... it just mean that that their opponent did not make the weight long before the fight...

Except guys like frankie edgar ,bj penn, lyoto machida ETC who barely cut weight to make there divisions(lw and lhw)..they get stuck facing monsters in there divisions..because the weight cut bullshit

 

[LukeSkyrocker]

Eaty.

Was gonna say

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

I agree on ur first point about early on but disagree about the rest..hes surrounded by lots of fighters and coaches who have fighters who cut weight or diet find it highly suspect he doesnt know how..i think he still thinks he can hang at 205 but the game has changed and the lhw division is where scared hws hide..from there own rightful division some real monsters lurk there

No, I'm not saying he doesnt know how. Of course he has plenty of coaches who could teach him, if that were the issue. But its just a lot of sacrifice that people prefer not to do. And as we get older, we are more and more stubborn. It's hard to make ourselves do things we really dont want to do. No one wants to cut weight or diet, but people do it if they feel the need. Later in careers, its hard to do that kind of thing. He probably should have been cutting more weight for a long time, but people gonna do what they want.

 

[linvillegorge]

Well the landscape of the 205 division has changed ....its alot of scared hws hiding at 205 and shogun was never a big 205er to begin with..his body shows us that..hes carrying alot of fat for a pro fighter thats not a HW

Virtually every weight class is full of massive weight cutters who are scared of fighting at a higher weight class. Look at guys like Rockhold, Weidman, Romero, etc. at MW. All three of those guys are bigger than Shogun. Hell, the guy who just brutally KTFO Shogun has fought the majority of his career at MW. My point was that Shogun's biggest problem is that he's a faded fighter. Cutting weight to get to a smaller weight class isn't going to change that, just like it didn't help Rashad when he finally dropped to MW. He probably should've been fighting there all along, but by the time he made the move it was already too late for him. He was shot. It would be the same story for Shogun at this point.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

No, I'm not saying he doesnt know how. Of course he has plenty of coaches who could teach him, if that were the issue. But its just a lot of sacrifice that people prefer not to do. And as we get older, we are more and more stubborn. It's hard to make ourselves do things we really dont want to do.

I get that ..good point..what do you think hed be like at 185 though?

 

[Bojka]

Yeah he has zero muscle definition. Could easily lose 5-10 lbs, but 20 lbs is pushing it.

He's probably flabby precisely because he can be at 205, but being lean wouldn't be enough to get down to 185 comfortably.

His ideal weight class would probably be 195.

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

I get that ..good point..what do you think hed be like at 185 though?

I think it will be tough to know. I dont think size has really been the issue recently. If he got wrestlefucked a lot, then I would agree. Also, for people who dont cut weight, its pretty tough to be fresh and ready to go when you start later in your career. I think if he moved down, he might have trouble with speed. Shogun relies on landing huge bombs and his chin. I dont think that strategy would translate well into a smaller weight clas. If he were unable to secure the TD for example, and the smaller guys would be easier to take down, or something of that nature, then I'd be ready to see him at MW. I thought Rashad might do a little better than he did, for example, but unforutnately not.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Virtually every weight class is full of massive weight cutters who are scared of fighting at a higher weight class. Look at guys like Rockhold, Weidman, Romero, etc. at MW. All three of those guys are bigger than Shogun. Hell, the guy who just brutally KTFO Shogun has fought the majority of his career at MW. My point was that Shogun's biggest problem is that he's a faded fighter. Cutting weight to get to a smaller weight class isn't going to change that, just like it didn't help Rashad when he finally dropped to MW. He probably should've been fighting there all along, but by the time he made the move it was already too late for him. He was shot. It would be the same story for Shogun at this point.

This was the answer i was looking 4 in my O.P..maybe it's too late for shogun now too..

 

[linvillegorge]

Overall, I think grappling heavy fighters are helped out the most by a size advantage. Size/strength advantage is a lot more important when it comes to grappling. Oftentimes speed is a bigger factor than size/strength in the striking department. Like the above poster said, I haven't really seen Shogun struggling at LHW because he's getting bullied due to a size/strength disadvantage.

 

[daniel san]

Shogun is still active today partly cuz he doesnt do those toxic weight cuts

Hmm well considering he ends up getting knocked out quite a lot I would have to say that the end of his career hasn’t looked that good and it’s partially due to him fighting guys that have 20-25 lbs on him. Since losing the belt to Jones he should have moved down to MW. Losing to Sonnen (a MW) as easily like Punk lost to a 0-1 fighter is a pretty good indication that it’s time to reconsider his career.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I think it will be tough to know. I dont think size has really been the issue recently. If he got wrestlefucked a lot, then I would agree. Also, for people who dont cut weight, its pretty tough to be fresh and ready to go when you start later in your career. I think if he moved down, he might have trouble with speed. Shogun relies on landing huge bombs and his chin. I dont think that strategy would translate well into a smaller weight clas. If he were unable to secure the TD for example, and the smaller guys would be easier to take down, or something of that nature, then I'd be ready to see him at MW. I thought Rashad might do a little better than he did, for example, but unforutnately not.

Yeah..i think if rashad and shogun went down right after losing there 205 titles..there could of been a chance to really see..now there could be too much mileage now

 

[Evangelion]

Shogun biggest problems are his lack of speed, his chin and his defense. All 3 of those things look even worse at 185.

Not too mention 185 is also a much stronger division. Shogun can beat the back end of lhws top 15, Alvey, Cummins, Lil Nog. I doubt he beats guys like Uriah Hall, Shoeface, or Jotko

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Overall, I think grappling heavy fighters are helped out the most by a size advantage. Size/strength advantage is a lot more important when it comes to grappling. Oftentimes speed is a bigger factor than size/strength in the striking department. Like the above poster said, I haven't really seen Shogun struggling at LHW because he's getting bullied due to a size/strength disadvantage.

Right..i agree about weight distribution and strength in the grappling area..but a lighter more fit shogun ( less flabs)..moves faster and will still be the "bigger guy" having fought at 205 before..he looks slow i think becuase of his size and over conditioning at 205.. 185 we could see a final form shogun rua..but the mileage on his body is the only question mark

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Shogun biggest problems are his lack of speed, his chin and his defense. All 3 of those things look even worse at 185.

Not too mention 185 is also a much stronger division. Shogun can beat the back end of lhws top 15, Alvey, Cummins, Lil Nog. I doubt he beats guys like Uriah Hall, Shoeface, or Jotko

A leaner, smaller shogun will move faster then flabby..off the couch looking shogun..and i believe he beats those youve mentioned at 185..if hes body mileage isnt a factor

 

[Evangelion]

A leaner, smaller shogun will move faster then flabby..off the couch looking shogun..and i believe he beats those youve mentioned at 185..if hes body mileage isnt a factor

Youre fucking delusional. Jesus imagine Shogun against Adesanya or Costa. He would die.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Youre fucking delusional. Jesus imagine Shogun against Adesanya or Costa. He would die.

Why is that?..shogun is a past mma champion with loads of experience and whos ,whos resume in the sport..these others guys just showed up..there just starting havent even beat anyone top yet or fought for titles..dont underestimate experience in fighting and shogun for that matter..a healthier shogun at 185 with no bad knees would beat those youve mentioned..costa trains with shogun..what he knows he learned from shogun most likely..

 

[linvillegorge]

Right..i agree about weight distribution and strength in the grappling area..but a lighter more fit shogun ( less flabs)..moves faster and will still be the "bigger guy" having fought at 205 before..he looks slow i think becuase of his size and over conditioning at 205.. 185 we could see a final form shogun rua..but the mileage on his body is the only question mark

I think he looks slow because he is slow these days.

 

[locust rising]

Fight at 205..hes not ripped or tall always looks very flabby..even in his prime in pride..i realise he had his best run at 205..but what does 185 pound shogun look and perform like..i think he might be stuck in the same trap as rshad and fought in too big of a weight class for too long..

Question does he turn his career around at 185 pounds or is it over or only down hill from here into a liddell/evans/henderson like retirement...

I believe rashad could of been middleweight champ if he dropped to 185 right after losing the 205 title..shogun im not sure..maybe given the current circumstances of the 205 and 185 divisons

Why make a clickbait title for a sherdog thread. They don’t monetize this shit dude.

 

[BobbyHillComedian]

Well it wouldnt be a wieght cut as much as a perminate lifestyle change to fight and live closer to 185lbs..

It will probably help his knee to be lighter and obvious carrying less fat will help as well for gas tank and body shot defense..flabs dont block as well as abs

Science.