Why does it seem like everyone from artofjiujitsu is so good?

[mataleaos]

Been by there a few times, but never trained there. But I've read similar accounts. BJJ has this weird thing that I've never seen in Judo where all the hipsters coallecs around a personality (like the Mendes bros). Trying to emulate their technique is one thing, but the way they dress and their fucking hair cut is pathetic... If I were the mendes bros, that would creep me out.

It's kind-of weird that you describe Rafa that way. Most of the interviews I've seen with him seems the opposite. He always seems to be laughing and very friendly. Guess people are very different off camera, or especially at work. Gotta think, he does this day in and day out and sees new people probably every day. Or maybe he's just an asshole. Most people are in alot of ways.

My buddy that trained there adopted their haircuts and style in terms of clothes. He dresses exactly like Rafa.

At worlds when Gui and Rafa were there they had 2 guys with them that I recognize from the website and they all had black jeans, black RVCA shirts, the same style sneakers, and the same haircut.

It's crazy right?

 

[mataleaos]

Unlike literally everywhere I've trained, including with gyms and instructors with similar cachet, AOJ seemed oddly insular and unwelcoming . No one said hello or particularly responded to offers to train during the hours I was there, despite several overtures from me. I sat within arms reach of Rafa watching politely for 20 minutes during class while he worked with one of his own students, and afterwards he didn't even make eye contact, give a head nod, or ask if I had questions.

I'm not in a twist over it or anything. It became pretty clear that the Mendes bros don't actually like people that much and have adopted a deliberate professional social persona because their business and reputation depend on it. The students pick up on that. They all have the same style of dress, haircut, and on-the-mat personal mannerisms as Rafa and Gui.

This is in contrast to Marcelo, Cobrinha, Lucas Lepri, etc. where by the end of an hour I felt like I was family already.

AOJ is obvisouly a fantastic academy. The Mendes bros are goddamn wizards on the mat and also gifted instructors, judging by the seminar and their students. I learned an incredible amount over two classes. Their school and students are extremely successful for all lthe right reasons. It felt like the BJJ version of the Stepford Wives, though, and I think it would bother me long-term.

YMMV.

Even though Gui is always the one that has the rep online of being more standoffish and cold ironically I would say outside of seminars that Gui is the one more likely to let down the Mendes Bros persona and seems more like a normal dude. Rafa never ever lets down the persona that you see. I guess there's a possibility that his private/relaxed persona is exactly like his public persona but I always got the impression that Rafa was always keeping up the image.

I don't think either one are bad guys mind you. I just do think like you said that they have a carefully crafted and branded image (more than anyone else in the bjj world by far) and that it's always on.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

Those videos I'm guessing are from their medal chasers/comp classes. Keep that in mind

 

[Uchi Mata]

I was hoping you'd tell me I was wrong and that they are comparable to other schools.

Haha no.

There's a few reasons their students always look so good on tape. They're trained by the Mendes brothers pretty much exclusively to be sport BJJ badasses, with that being the goal from day 1. People seem to train very hard there, and they don't waste any time on extraneous crap that won't help them win matches. I don't think you could find a higher technical level of coaching for sport BJJ than Rafa and Gui either, so not only are they working on the right things in the right way, they're working on the best versions of the right things in the right way.

The other side of it is that the Mendes bros are pretty careful about what they put out there footage wise. If you're seeing footage from their academy posted by them (which it usually is since they're pretty controlling about what goes on at their school) they're going to look good. I recall an interview with Keenan where he talked about going there and the interviewer asked him how it went and he replied something along the lines of 'they didn't post the footage so you know how it went', implying that he did well so the Mendese didn't release it. You have to know with the calibur of guys that roll through there that there's other footage of them looking human, but you'll never see it on Youtube. I'd guess it's the same when their guys get rolled up, they're not going to put that out there as it doesn't help their brand.

Their guys are good and win a lot of tough competitions, but there's also an element of selection bias in terms of what you see coming out of their gym.

 

[Calibur]

^^^

And that selection bias is genius. It creates a mystique that inspires threads like these to be made.

 

[Striderxdj]

One of my good friends who is an excellent brown belt said that when he visited there it was very no-nonsense, business oriented, and while not unfriendly, more of a "strictly jiu-jitsu" environment.

Aside from the quality instruction, it sounded pretty awful.

 

[KillMeGod]

those are paid actors

 

[chillfi]

Because they all live off their parents and train jiu jitsu 3 times a day. lets see if half of those dudes are still training in 5 years.

 

[dmwalking]

I'm not going to say steroids......

 

[ngarauru]

Having watched almost all the videos on the website, I think Gui is a better teacher than Rafa. But both are outstanding.


They have top coaches, who teach a competition game that works, eliminating moves that aren't necessary to win. They have great competition within the school. They offer eight classes a day. And they attract a ton of ppl who train full time.
And they use the ATOS system of speed drills and conditioning.


It's a combination very few schools have

What exactly is the ATOS system of......?

 

[mataleaos]

The other side of it is that the Mendes bros are pretty careful about what they put out there footage wise. If you're seeing footage from their academy posted by them (which it usually is since they're pretty controlling about what goes on at their school) they're going to look good. I recall an interview with Keenan where he talked about going there and the interviewer asked him how it went and he replied something along the lines of 'they didn't post the footage so you know how it went', implying that he did well so the Mendese didn't release it. You have to know with the calibur of guys that roll through there that there's other footage of them looking human, but you'll never see it on Youtube. I'd guess it's the same when their guys get rolled up, they're not going to put that out there as it doesn't help their brand.

They also frequently have visitors roll with their top guys and then roll with them last and sometimes they don't tell people they are being filmed. I imagine by now that anyone with a name will know they're being filmed but I know for sure that when Bill Cooper and Joel Tudor went out there that they weren't aware of any footage until they saw it.

Because they all live off their parents and train jiu jitsu 3 times a day. lets see if half of those dudes are still training in 5 years.

Burnout is a real thing too. There are threads here that talk about people going out there to become world champs and getting burned out and quitting jiu-jitsu.

I think living off your parents or having a trust fund or something like that is the case for a lot of these younger guys out there. My friend moved across the country to train full time at AOJ and had a decent job as well as a monthly disability paycheck from the Army and he had to get a second job out there. It's so fucking expensive out there. He was basically saying if you want to be as good as their top guys you've got to train as much as them but the only way you can train as much as them is to have enough money to not need to work. Because if you work then you aren't training as much as them and you won't get as good as them.

Crazy cycle. He was still able to train a lot and he did Worlds and they (some fellow students) were coaching him and then he got injured and lost the match and they straight up walked away. Didn't help him off and weren't there for him when he got off the mat.

He said the vibe at Atos HQ in San Diego was way cooler than AOJ and ended up training there. He said the vibe was much better and friendlier.

 

[mataleaos]

One of my good friends who is an excellent brown belt said that when he visited there it was very no-nonsense, business oriented, and while not unfriendly, more of a "strictly jiu-jitsu" environment.

Aside from the quality instruction, it sounded pretty awful.

Likewise.

My guy said there was so much stuff to pay for too. He said the required black spats, black shorts, and black rash guard were almost 200 bucks. They didn't have gis you had to buy from the academy at the time but he said that was changing. Lots of pressure to wear certain things and speak a certain way. I remember that instructor supposedly being fired for not shaving. Not sure if that's true or not.

Those videos I'm guessing are from their medal chasers/comp classes. Keep that in mind

The thing though is I think most of their student base is comp students or kids. I don't think they attract a lot of hobbyists. I could be off on that but I know a bunch of people that have trained there or do train there. I think they advertise than the gym is for everyone but I'm pretty sure that the hobbyists get weeded out fast.

 

[Uchi Mata]

They also frequently have visitors roll with their top guys and then roll with them last and sometimes they don't tell people they are being filmed. I imagine by now that anyone with a name will know they're being filmed but I know for sure that when Bill Cooper and Joel Tudor went out there that they weren't aware of any footage until they saw it.

Really? That's actually pretty shady in a game where your reputation matters so much to your ability to make money. Hate to hear that.

 

[mataleaos]

Really? That's actually pretty shady in a game where your reputation matters so much to your ability to make money. Hate to hear that.

I know Coop wasn't upset about it. He doesn't sweat stuff like that. He was just surprised that they tell him someone was filming from the benches. @Ice 9 Cobra may know some more details or examples of this.

 

[KillMeGod]

He said the required black spats, black shorts, and black rash guard were almost 200 bucks. They didn't have gis you had to buy from the academy at the time but he said that was changing. Lots of pressure to wear certain things and speak a certain way. I remember that instructor supposedly being fired for not shaving. Not sure if that's true or not.

sounds like a place for women to train... bunch of metrosexual brazilians LOL no wonder they love pulling guard and scissoring their opponents

 

[dimmyfinster]

Haha no.

There's a few reasons their students always look so good on tape. They're trained by the Mendes brothers pretty much exclusively to be sport BJJ badasses, with that being the goal from day 1. People seem to train very hard there, and they don't waste any time on extraneous crap that won't help them win matches. I don't think you could find a higher technical level of coaching for sport BJJ than Rafa and Gui either, so not only are they working on the right things in the right way, they're working on the best versions of the right things in the right way.

The other side of it is that the Mendes bros are pretty careful about what they put out there footage wise. If you're seeing footage from their academy posted by them (which it usually is since they're pretty controlling about what goes on at their school) they're going to look good. I recall an interview with Keenan where he talked about going there and the interviewer asked him how it went and he replied something along the lines of 'they didn't post the footage so you know how it went', implying that he did well so the Mendese didn't release it. You have to know with the calibur of guys that roll through there that there's other footage of them looking human, but you'll never see it on Youtube. I'd guess it's the same when their guys get rolled up, they're not going to put that out there as it doesn't help their brand.

Their guys are good and win a lot of tough competitions, but there's also an element of selection bias in terms of what you see coming out of their gym.

To me the tape doesn't matter. The results speak for themselves, for both the brothers and the kids. In the end that's what matters not in house video.


A point on the technical level of instruction. Because they have so many classes a day, they go in detail on things you'd rarely see elsewhere. What to do when the opponent straightens the arm on omoplata. What to do what opponent tried to lasso and invert when you do crazy dog pass. This is in the fundamentals class! Most schools just can't get into this level of detail on low occurrence events, they're too busy with just the move and maybe one common counter.


That said, I can only speak to the online site, I have no idea what the vibe is at the school.

 

[hamoom]

I trained there since opening day but then left after a few years. There were definitely some people who gave me trouble especially with the gi. The delariva game gets really deep there and is a pain to deal with..

I think that the average student is better than the average student in other bjj schools around OC. The reason for that is simply because more serious practitioners are attracted to the academy and go there. The instruction is great and all that but I don't think thats the reason for them having good people. The reason is you have people quitting their jobs and traveling across the country to be there.. The average person there is younger and more dedicated. Half the people I train with now are old and out of shape. Most places are more of a mixed bag compared to AOJ.

Even then I don't think most of the guys are super amazing. There are a couple exceptional guys that I trained with there but it wasn't the norm. They were also excellent before they ever joined the academy..

Keep in mind I haven't been there in maybe two years or so.. so I'm not sure what the current state is now.

If you work there they encourage you to have a certain haircut and style of dress. Yes I know someone who got fired for not shaving.

They seem to idolize Steve Jobs from what I can tell. I remember seeing Rafa with a book about him. You can see it in the style of the academy.. Apple stuff everywhere.. Their perfection or nothing mindset.

I still dont know why theyre always wearing all black at tournaments...

 

[Toothless King]

Unlike literally everywhere I've trained, including with gyms and instructors with similar cachet, AOJ seemed oddly insular and unwelcoming . No one said hello or particularly responded to offers to train during the hours I was there, despite several overtures from me. I sat within arms reach of Rafa watching politely for 20 minutes during class while he worked with one of his own students, and afterwards he didn't even make eye contact, give a head nod, or ask if I had questions.

I'm not in a twist over it or anything. It became pretty clear that the Mendes bros don't actually like people that much and have adopted a deliberate professional social persona because their business and reputation depend on it. The students pick up on that. They all have the same style of dress, haircut, and on-the-mat personal mannerisms as Rafa and Gui.

This is in contrast to Marcelo, Cobrinha, Lucas Lepri, etc. where by the end of an hour I felt like I was family already.

AOJ is obvisouly a fantastic academy. The Mendes bros are goddamn wizards on the mat and also gifted instructors, judging by the seminar and their students. I learned an incredible amount over two classes. Their school and students are extremely successful for all lthe right reasons. It felt like the BJJ version of the Stepford Wives, though, and I think it would bother me long-term.

YMMV.

Ive been training at AOJ since 2013.

You are in the wrong gym if you expect small-gym vibe from AOJ. Rafa didn't get my name right until after my first year at AOJ. AOJ is a huge gym with a of students. The gym locates in a tourist beach in southern california. Down the road from AOJ is Irvine (IBJJF Pan Am) and close to Long Beach (IBJJF Worlds), so AOJ gets A LOT of visitors all year long.

 

[TheGZA]

Ive been training at AOJ since 2013.

Post a picture of your haircut.

 

[mataleaos]

You are in the wrong gym if you expect small-gym vibe from AOJ.

To be fair he didn't say that he had a problem with it.