International Why does China want Taiwan? They have their own domino theory.

[Blayt7hh]

In their case Domino theory is real. When people in countries like China see how much better life is for people in the west, they push for change.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Inferiority complex. China throughout it's history has been the Sick Man of Asia. Everyone from the Mongols to the British Empire to Imperial Japan has bent them over and raped them. Without even having the Goddamn common courtesy to give them a reach around.

Now they want to flex their muscles and show the damned Gweilo's they can stand and bang with the big boys. It's a bit like a nerd who's gone through a growth spurt and spent his summer holiday living in the gym and dojo. He's going to spend his last year of high school kicking the shit out of the bullies who've made his life miserable.

For most of history China has been the dominant power in Asia. Those times you mentioned were big exceptions to that

 

[KnightTemplar]

For most of history China has been the dominant power in Asia. Those times you mentioned were big exceptions to that

China got it's shit pushed twice by Japan alone. Genghis literally raped, pillaged and burned his way across large parts of China; something like 1% of all Chinese men are his direct descendants. And Kubla finished what Genghis started.

Conquering military powerhouses like Tibet is about China's limit.

 

[Scerpi]

For most of history China has been the dominant power in Asia. Those times you mentioned were big exceptions to that

Wasn't China pretty divided for much of history, even during dynasties? Like united by a dynasty for a few centuries then split up during warring factions for a few centuries? Rinse Repeat. Seems like there's a tons of internal strife, even during dynasties. But there were a few extremely strong, lengthly regimes were China advanced culturally and technically.

It's amazing reading

I remember trying to unite China in that Three Kingdoms games back in the day... lol

And when people reflect on WWII tragedies, China is often left out because of the focus in Europe. It's horrible.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Wasn't China pretty divided for much of history, even during dynasties? Like united by a dynasty for a few centuries then split up during warring factions for a few centuries? Rinse Repeat. Seems like there's a tons of internal strife, even during dynasties. But there were a few extremely strong, lengthly regimes were China advanced culturally and technically.

It's amazing reading

I remember trying to unite China in that Three Kingdoms games back in the day... lol

And when people reflect on WWII tragedies, China is often left out because of the focus in Europe. It's horrible.

Yeah I’m not well versed on Chinese history. I think the borders as we know them today are relatively modern and it was broken into different kingdoms for much of its history.

They’ve been an economic and cultural powerhouse for most of their history. It’s kind of nuts to paint them as chronically weak. I say that and I personally don’t really like China. More of a Japan fan myself

 

[SandisLL]

The USA nuked Japan and now Japan is one of Americas strongest allies. Things can change pretty quickly when the strategic picture is altered.

In the lectures he doesn’t say that he agrees with this strategy, or that it will work, but that Shi Jinping has stated these are his intentions. It’s a part of a broader global strategy that also includes outreach to “the global south.”

And nobody said they would “run with open arms” - more like; who will defend them against China if the U.S. cannot be trusted?

You do know basic of hierarchy in Japan in old times?

Landlord cedes for certain feodal to rule certain area in exchange for support in case of war. For this purpose vassal in samurai had used also hired professionals and also his peasants etc too.


Later hierarchy positions took modern colonels and generals etc......
And ofc miltary industrial complex elite and so on.

1930-1945 Japan : 0 word against orders and 0 suspicious talks might gave some % of hope not to get ......yup.

So so huge oppression was reality for them.

 

[PeterGriffin]

This has been a three-way game of real-life risk since the end of the last cold war. Money, resources, and real estate. The world's not such a big place anymore.

Vlad waited until the right time, and Donnie's just fucking stupid. When Russia and China align, and the Arabs sell only to the ones that hate the West as much as they themselves do, the USA will be left scrambling for real allies. Treat everyone like shit, expect the same in return. Just because you have a big stick, it doesn't mean you automatically get to be a fucking dickhead-by-default.

China will take Taiwan with surprisingly little resistance, and the only ones who could have stopped them are bankrupting themselves trying to wage war on multiple fronts simultaneously elsewhere. China will take Taiwan when it decides the USA is at its most-leveraged state and overextended militarily. China will decide whenever that is, but in my opinion, I see that becoming more and more of a reality sooner rather than later.

Targeting China's oil suppliers and assets is kicking a hornet's nest right now.

And what really sucks for us fucking Canadians is we're getting dragged into this shit no matter what. It's either stick up for the USA when you need us, or fight you when it becomes the only other option. This is where we are.

 

[SandisLL]

This has been a three-way game of real-life risk since the end of the last cold war. Money, resources, and real estate. The world's not such a big place anymore.

Vlad waited until the right time, and Donnie's just fucking stupid. When Russia and China align, and the Arabs sell only to the ones that hate the West as much as they themselves do, the USA will be left scrambling for real allies. Treat everyone like shit, expect the same in return. Just because you have a big stick, it doesn't mean you automatically get to be a fucking dickhead-by-default.

China will take Taiwan with surprisingly little resistance, and the only ones who could have stopped them are bankrupting themselves trying to wage war on multiple fronts simultaneously elsewhere. China will take Taiwan when it decides the USA is at its most-leveraged state and overextended militarily. China will decide whenever that is, but in my opinion, I see that becoming more and more of a reality sooner rather than later.

Targeting China's oil suppliers and assets is kicking a hornet's nest right now.

And what really sucks for us fucking Canadians is we're getting dragged into this shit no matter what. It's either stick up for the USA when you need us, or fight you when it becomes the only other option. This is where we are.

Why not. TrumpVance can't even to protect U.S.
Exactly U.S even alone and Congress does knows this reality while to impeach one senile and replace with even more senile patient in Vance is even more risky mental healthcare experiement.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

Why not. TrumpVance can't even to protect U.S.
Exactly U.S even alone and Congress does knows this reality while to impeach one senile and replace with even more senile patient in Vance is even more risky mental healthcare experiement.

Walz will protect Taiwan.

 

[Cid]

We support 73% of the world's dictatorships and have overthrown what, dozens of democracies? I don't buy the "they're afraid of our freedom" 2000s Bush Jr thing. Our country is barely even a democracy at this point and to the extent that we can vote our choices are very limited in a rigged game that serves Capital above all else and has for decades. We're on some banana republic shit with Capital in nigh full control of our government; our elections are more show than go.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think China is an angel but I also don't think they're some absurd evil. Belt and Road ain't worse than IMF loans from what I've seen. Hell, we're trying to enact a strict surveillance state here too, they don't have to do that for us.

The US has done plenty of damage to our "brand" over the decades and Trump and our pendulum elections are pretty much killing trust in us and significant portions of the world are finding ways around the dollar. BRICS is growing.

I also think the military industrial complex warmly welcomes a new cold war with China. We may have bitten off more than we can chew this time though.

When I said "say what you want about the cold war" it wasn't literal. I wasn't asking for an American to patronizingly attempt to educate me on it because they lack self awareness. I know the history every bit as well as you do. It was an acknowledgement that there were some pretty horrible actions by the US during that time. That was the inference, it wasn't subtle, I thought it was pretty obvious, clearly not for everyone. Hopefully it is now.

Like wise I don't need you to tell me that your democracy is an outdated relic that hasn't kept up with countries like mine. I know that better than you. When your education system was teaching you that you're the beacon of democracy I was being educated on how ranked choice voting works and why it's superior to your shitty first past the post system. Or what gerrymandering is and how we resolved that problem decades ago.

The funniest part is you patronizingly attempting to nuh-uh a foreigner from a democratic country over their preferred superpower being America and not China. They poll this shit. A simple google search will demonstrate that you are irrefutably wrong.

Poll: China Makes “Startling” Gains as the World’s Preferred “Leading Power”

Favorable views of the United States have fallen sharply over the past year while perceptions of China have improved significantly, according to the findings of a new poll that surveyed 32,000 people in 32 countries. The survey was conducted for The Economist by GlobeScan, a consulting and...

chinaglobalsouth.com

China vs. U.S.: Who's Winning Hearts and Minds?

A new Gallup analysis explores how the world sees the leadership of the U.S. and China, and the advantages that each has around the globe.

news.gallup.com

United States or China as world leader? Asians vastly prefer US, study says

Poll shows that Beijing’s record on human rights affects opinions about Chinese leadership, with Asians in Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Indonesia and Australia having a dimmer view of the country.

www.scmp.com

Are you capable of having an adult conversation as to why I am right?

 

[aerius]

Fucking hell, that assclown is actually a Chinese Studies prof? I like how he conveniently leaves out the Chinese Civil War and how the Nationalist Chinese illegally occupied Taiwan and placed it under martial law for almost 4 decades before they finally had free elections in the early 90s. I'm descended from the indigenous people of Taiwan and I'm just sitting here thinking "this prof is either a fucking idiot or a paid propagandist".

 

[Hog-train]

We support 73% of the world's dictatorships and have overthrown what, dozens of democracies? I don't buy the "they're afraid of our freedom" 2000s Bush Jr thing. Our country is barely even a democracy at this point and to the extent that we can vote our choices are very limited in a rigged game that serves Capital above all else and has for decades. We're on some banana republic shit with Capital in nigh full control of our government; our elections are more show than go.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think China is an angel but I also don't think they're some absurd evil. Belt and Road ain't worse than IMF loans from what I've seen. Hell, we're trying to enact a strict surveillance state here too, they don't have to do that for us.

The US has done plenty of damage to our "brand" over the decades and Trump and our pendulum elections are pretty much killing trust in us and significant portions of the world are finding ways around the dollar. BRICS is growing.

I also think the military industrial complex warmly welcomes a new cold war with China. We may have bitten off more than we can chew this time though.

There's a reason all of China's immediate neighbors can't stand their asses.

They're belligerent shitheads and every single one prefers the US over China. Korea, India, the Philippines and Japan especially hates them.

China inserts spies and agent provocateurs in their countries trying to sway their elections, steal intellectual property and all sorts of shady shit.

China keeps trying to steal their land and sea territory.

China is responsible for North Korea existing. That's why Koreans absolutely detests Communism.

China got it's shit pushed twice by Japan alone. Genghis literally raped, pillaged and burned his way across large parts of China; something like 1% of all Chinese men are his direct descendants. And Kubla finished what Genghis started.

Conquering military powerhouses like Tibet is about China's limit.

Genghis Khan's grandson literally became Chinese though - the Yuan dynasty.

 

[Hog-train]

Fun fact: There is a reason most of Asia is so virulently anti-drugs - even doling out death penalty for things like weed.

It's the downstream effect of England and France forcing China to get massively addicted to opium.

Opium Wars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[deviake]

When I said "say what you want about the cold war" it wasn't literal. I wasn't asking for an American to patronizingly attempt to educate me on it because they lack self awareness. I know the history every bit as well as you do. It was an acknowledgement that there were some pretty horrible actions by the US during that time. That was the inference, it wasn't subtle, I thought it was pretty obvious, clearly not for everyone. Hopefully it is now.

Like wise I don't need you to tell me that your democracy is an outdated relic that hasn't kept up with countries like mine. I know that better than you. When your education system was teaching you that you're the beacon of democracy I was being educated on how ranked choice voting works and why it's superior to your shitty first past the post system. Or what gerrymandering is and how we resolved that problem decades ago.

The funniest part is you patronizingly attempting to nuh-uh a foreigner from a democratic country over their preferred superpower being America and not China. They poll this shit. A simple google search will demonstrate that you are irrefutably wrong.

Poll: China Makes “Startling” Gains as the World’s Preferred “Leading Power”

Favorable views of the United States have fallen sharply over the past year while perceptions of China have improved significantly, according to the findings of a new poll that surveyed 32,000 people in 32 countries. The survey was conducted for The Economist by GlobeScan, a consulting and...

chinaglobalsouth.com

China vs. U.S.: Who's Winning Hearts and Minds?

A new Gallup analysis explores how the world sees the leadership of the U.S. and China, and the advantages that each has around the globe.

news.gallup.com

United States or China as world leader? Asians vastly prefer US, study says

Poll shows that Beijing’s record on human rights affects opinions about Chinese leadership, with Asians in Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Indonesia and Australia having a dimmer view of the country.

www.scmp.com

Are you capable of having an adult conversation as to why I am right?

Re-reading my post and yours I can see why you overreacted here, but it is still an embarrassing overreaction and you did semi-repeat Bush era freedom nonsense. The "dumb American" trope is cheap and played out though. You did a lot of huffing and puffing and didn't accomplish much. You didn't refute a thing I said.

I don't know what country you're from but it likely also does a lot of business with China. Europe is not without its problems either but just having healthcare, likely much better public transportation and paid time off by law puts you well ahead of the US. We consider that "communist" here.

Your first poll is behind a paywall but backs what I was alluding to.

Your second link, an article, is from a year ago before Trump took office.

Your third link is also behind a paywall but Australia and Japan having a dim view of China is pretty meaningless and China has had historical beef with Korea as with Japan, Japan doing god-awful things in China during WWII. None-the-less, all three started talking and shook hands after Trump's tariff bullshit and your paywall article is from 2018. A LOT has changed since then, including Trump and Biden escalating tensions with China and Trump getting back into office and threatening half the globe.

I have no idea what the point of your response is other than pure butthurt, which, fair, I was critical in my response to you and I can see how it could have come off harshly so I can see how your emotions got away from you, but your response is still embarrassing, especially considering your condescension and deigning to lecture me about self awareness.

 

[deviake]

There's a reason all of China's immediate neighbors can't stand their asses.

They're belligerent shitheads and every single one prefers the US over China. Korea, India, the Philippines and Japan especially hates them.

China inserts spies and agent provocateurs in their countries trying to sway their elections, steal intellectual property and all sorts of shady shit.

China keeps trying to steal their land and sea territory.

China is responsible for North Korea existing. That's why Koreans absolutely detests Communism.



Genghis Khan's grandson literally became Chinese though - the Yuan dynasty.

The US has overthrown shit tons of democratically elected leaders and spies on everyone. You think the fucking CIA doesn't do shady shit? Laughable.

 

[Hog-train]

The US has overthrown shit tons of democratically elected leaders and spies on everyone. You think the fucking CIA doesn't do shady shit? Laughable.

Who the hell said the US didn't do shady shit? That's a red herring that no one claimed.

Despite all that US fuckery, all of China's neighbors still overwhelmingly prefer the US. What does that tell you of China? They're massive shitheads.

 

[deviake]

Who the hell said the US didn't do shady shit? That's a red herring that no one claimed.

Despite all that US fuckery, all of China's neighbors still overwhelmingly prefer the US. What does that tell you of China? They're massive shitheads.

I don't have some deep love of China, I just don't have any hate for them either and I'm well aware they're very authoritarian internally.

That doesn't say that at all. That may be the case but on its own without any context it doesn't indicate that on its own and I'm not familiar enough with their histories outside of with Japan to comment.

My point about all the awful shit the US has done and supports is basically, "judge not lest ye be judged."

 

[Hog-train]

I don't have some deep love of China, I just don't have any hate for them either and I'm well aware they're very authoritarian internally.

That doesn't say that at all. That may be the case but on its own without any context it doesn't indicate that on its own and I'm not familiar enough with their histories outside of with Japan to comment.

My point about all the awful shit the US has done and supports is basically, "judge not lest ye be judged."

They're literally the reason North Korea exists because Chinese troops stormed into the country after the US helped defend against the Communist invasion. If not for the Chinese, all of Korea would be a free democracy.

On top of that, China routinely tries to bully Korea right now using economic levers. Koreans do not like China for good reason.

China also tried to invade Vietnam in the 70's, but got their asses kicked.

They're also constantly ramming Filipino fishing boats and trying to claim their territorial waters right off their coast.

They're also constantly trying to steal India's land in the mountains.

They're also claiming almost the entire South China Sea as their own.

China are fucking assholes.

 

[deviake]

They're literally the reason North Korea exists because Chinese troops stormed into the country after the US helped defend against the Communist invasion. If not for the Chinese, all of Korea would be a free democracy.

On top of that, China routinely tries to bully Korea right now using economic levers. Koreans do not like China for good reason.

China also tried to invade Vietnam in the 70's, but got their asses kicked.

They're also constantly ramming Filipino fishing boats and trying to claim their territorial waters right off their coast.

They're also constantly trying to steal India's land in the mountains.

China are fucking assholes.

I don't dispute any of that but the US and western powers have been brutal to the Philipines, India and Vietnam as well. But... we're not assholes or...? It strikes me as throwing stones in a glass house, especially considering what the US has been getting up to lately.

 

[Alpha_T83]

In their case Domino theory is real. When people in countries like China see how much better life is for people in the west, they push for change.

Exactly.

Taiwan is dangerous for China as a symbol of freedom and Democracy. If Chinese citizens see that this is possible, they might get ideas.

This is one of the reasons Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia could not have a free and prosperous Ukraine joining the EU, with Ukrainian GDP per capita rising as they did in the Baltic States. This would show Russians how they were in such a rich country, and yet doing worse than Ukrainians.