Why does any fighters losses "out of their prime" not count against them

1

120wrestling

Brown Belt
@Brown
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
3,822
Reaction score
0
The nature of being considered a GOAT means that their whole career is subject to praise/criticism...the fact that they visibly slowed down or got chinny while previously not having those traits shouldn't make their career filled with excuses.

Fedor realistically got beat up by quite possibly one of the worst light heavyweights ranked top in the world in Maldonado. Fedor chose to fight out of his best years, and MMA is a sport where the only person you can blame is yourself...just because Fedor is obviously not what he was doesn't excuse the fact that he was basically out against a light heavyweight...that doesn't diminish his accomplishments but it definetly tarnishes his GOAT status. Especially his losses to guys like Hendo and big foot

Anderson lost to Bisping, would Andy have beaten Bisping years ago? Probably, but he lost to Bisping now...so while his accomplishments are unheralded. his GOAT candidacy is fuked and especially when he tested positive for PED's

The true all time goats are
1. GSP
2. Jose Aldo
3. *Jon Jones

If Aldo beats Mcgregor and takes out Holloway, IMO he surpasses GSP and takes the #1 spot
 
Being an older and slower fighter later in their career doesn't undermine how good they were in their prime. Retiring early doesn't mean you are better, but it may mean you are smarter. If you saw Silva lose last night and think it undercuts his legacy as king of MA, you are daft.
 
Any MMA GOAT list without Fedor on it is trash.
 
Everything haves a curve, at the peak of that curve you have a fighter at his 100%, at the end of the curve you have this same fighter at a 60% and maybe less. The victory counts but its not the same.
 
I'm not sure whether it is possible or not to define concepts such as "GOAT" and "pound for pound", but I'd agree with your #1 and the main argument backing up your idea.

I'd just throw Dominick Cruz's name in the mix as well.
 
Philip Miller GOAT??? Ali and Sugar Ray tarnished their legacies??? Fuck out of here
 
120wrestling said:
The nature of being considered a GOAT means that their whole career is subject to praise/criticism...the fact that they visibly slowed down or got chinny while previously not having those traits shouldn't make their career filled with excuses.

Fedor realistically got beat up by quite possibly one of the worst light heavyweights ranked top in the world in Maldonado. Fedor chose to fight out of his best years, and MMA is a sport where the only person you can blame is yourself...just because Fedor is obviously not what he was doesn't excuse the fact that he was basically out against a light heavyweight...that doesn't diminish his accomplishments but it definetly tarnishes his GOAT status. Especially his losses to guys like Hendo and big foot

Anderson lost to Bisping, would Andy have beaten Bisping years ago? Probably, but he lost to Bisping now...so while his accomplishments are unheralded. his GOAT candidacy is fuked and especially when he tested positive for PED's

The true all time goats are
1. GSP
2. Jose Aldo
3. *Jon Jones

If Aldo beats Mcgregor and takes out Holloway, IMO he surpasses GSP and takes the #1 spot
Click to expand...


GSP only got away unscathed because he retired and walked away from the fight game while still in his prime (although already showing signs of his decline).
 
In boxing do u hold Ali's losses to Holms and Berbick against him, or Joe Louis losses to Charles and marciono, or what about Roy Jones still fuckin up his legacy still the goat at lh hands down. Fighters fight to long it's a testament to the heart that got them in the goat conversation to begin with IMO.
 
Yeah it makes no sense because people arbitrarily decide when someone was "out of their prime" to just fit your argument.

For example, Cro Cop had just won the Pride heavyweight tournament and was at top of his game when he came to the UFC and got owned by Gonzaga.

Yet people act like he only lost because he was out of his prime, not because he was overhyped in Japan lmao.
 
1. GSP
2. Anderson
3. Jones
4. Aldo
5. Cruz
6. MM
7. Fedor
8. Hughes
9. BJ
10. Hendo
 
Being GOAT is about your accomplishments. Not about whether or not you retired early to avoid any losses on your record as you were pushing 40.

I'm a huge fan of Anderson Silva and Fedor, but there's been a pretty big difference between the two fighters at the end of their careers.

Anderson's last two losses were against the current MW champion and the current LHW champion (who he fought on 2 days notice w/no camp at all). Fedor by contrast defeated Jaideep Singh (who? - exactly) and Maldonado a dropout of the UFC LHW division (and even that was debateably a gift from judges who literally work for Fedor).

I find Anderson's losses to be more impressive than Fedor's wins given the context. Who you fight and how you perform matters. It's not just padding your win-loss record.
 
Has anyone defended a championship belt in the top league of MMA whenever it was Pride/Affliction/Elite XC/UFC more than Anderson? No? Okay then.
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Being an older and slower fighter later in their career doesn't undermine how good they were in their prime. Retiring early doesn't mean you are better, but it may mean you are smarter. If you saw Silva lose last night and think it undercuts his legacy as king of MA, you are daft.
Click to expand...



I always laugh how MMA fans are different from other sports fans when it comes to this subject. Only in MMA will a lost when you are out of your prime put into question your entire career. In 2010 Brian Wilson was on the best closer's in baseball and a few years later he couldn't even get signed on any team. Nobody says "Well Wilson's 2010 season took a hit since he sucks now".
 
YoungRonniecoleman said:
Has anyone defended a championship belt in the top league of MMA whenever it was Pride/Affliction/Elite XC/UFC more than Anderson? No? Okay then.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Anderson is not an all time great, I'm saying that a fighters GOAT status indicates that throughout the duration of their career...they performed exceptionally.

This holds no weight on their legacy however, Anderson will go down as the most dominant champion in MMA history as will Fedor. But the fact that Fedor has been performing like a scrub devalues his career and this cannot be argued. People 10 years ago would have said that Fedor would crush the UFC HW division....his value was high, nowadays Fedor is losing the LHW rejects and would most likely get beaten by many top WW and MW.....his career value has gone down from a long term perspective, but his legacy will always be gold status
 
King Kerns said:
In boxing do u hold Ali's losses to Holms and Berbick against him, or Joe Louis losses to Charles and marciono, or what about Roy Jones still fuckin up his legacy still the goat at lh hands down. Fighters fight to long it's a testament to the heart that got them in the goat conversation to begin with IMO.
Click to expand...

Yeah I do hold them against them.

If I was in the 1990's right now and had a 1990's computer and it performed exceptionally, I might say that this computer is the greatest computer ever. But if the computer isn't able to perform throughout it's lifetime duration and can't keep up with the new age...the computer is no longer the best computer ever. But when people look back at that computer they're going to say "Yeah that computer was great for it's time"...its legacy will continue to stand

By the way, I'm high so idk if any of that made sense
 
It wasn't a great analogy. To explain if you equate a 90's CPU to Ali and a modern CPU to Tyson fury the 90's CPU would beat the fucking shit out of the modern CPU despite the advanced technology. Hope I blew your mind and I am also quite high.
 
I rewatched Silva/Bisping on Friday in anticipation for 200 and I gotta say it was kind of a robbery, Silva won that fight. Bisping won the first two rounds but not by much. Last three rounds were all Silva, especially round three which he dominated.

In regards to past prime fighters losses not counting against them, a loss is a loss, but doesn't necessarily reflect how a fight would have played out years earlier. Everybody declines eventually.
 
Winning a fight is the greatest high in the world. The great fighters have a mentality that they will always be the best. They know they can get one more win. Feel that feeling again. Unfortunately most fight until their loved ones force them to stop. You lose your skills before you lose your heart. You can't hold that against them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,254,667
Messages
56,663,527
Members
175,336
Latest member
Swamps

Share this page

Back
Top