Why do Thais have so few knockouts

[Dougall]

These guys can have well over 200 fights, but only tend to have around 30-40 knockouts. I'm not doubting these guys don't have the power to finish fights or anything like that. But how can so many fights go to decision? Looking at it from the other point of view, how can they take hundreds upon hundreds of rounds of abuse from opponents and still have their chin hold up. Surely with fighters so active you'd see more chins getting cracked and knockouts left right and centre.
What is it that makes Thais so tough and hard to finish?

 

[Kanka]

If you look at thais that fight at a lower skill level there are probably a higher % of knockouts

 

[Yodsanan]

Because middlekicks are the main tool of scoring.

 

[Boran]

Due to gambling most fights are very evenly matched. If one fighter would be much better the stakes are too predictable.

Also the culture of not finishing a fighter when you're clearly winning has an effect. That's why you see boring 5th rounds in which fighters are just dancing in the ring and not fighting anymore. They both accept the outcome and will not harm each other any more.

Third reason (which is related to the first one): because the talent pool is so deep, the fighters at the highest levels are so close to each other. The chance of a knock out decreases. Compare it to a footbal (soccer) match. In the amateur levels it's not uncommon that a team wins with 8-0. In the champions league this is very uncommon, since the level is higher. When the level is higher, the teams (or fighters) are more evenly matched.

 

[Deleted member 363827]

Equal match ups

Once you see Thai go abroad for retirement tour you can see them knocking out fighters abroad left and right. Some fighters have no ko wins for a decade but once they are matched up against foreigners they go on a ko streak e.g. Singdam.

 

[Kanka]

I don't think they hold back from finishing if they can finish the other guy easily. But i think due to the gambling fightets just try to maximize their chances of winning and minimize chances of losing so trying to go for the KO might not be the best strategy when you're slightly ahead on points

 

[freaky]

You also don't see much elbows. When you see elbows, that's when you know they're fighting for reals. They know they're prize fighters and have to fight every week to support their families. Elbows give cuts that will prevent you from fighting for months. Same with KOs. Most of them don't punch or kick that hard in a real fight. Looks like my sparring.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Seems to be plenty of KO's every week coming out of the stadiums. Almost all the fights are very evenly matched on the stadiums so that will account for a degree of decisions. If you want to see Thai's consistently KO opponents watch Thai Fight.

 

[RichardN7]

These guys can have well over 200 fights, but only tend to have around 30-40 knockouts. I'm not doubting these guys don't have the power to finish fights or anything like that. But how can so many fights go to decision? Looking at it from the other point of view, how can they take hundreds upon hundreds of rounds of abuse from opponents and still have their chin hold up. Surely with fighters so active you'd see more chins getting cracked and knockouts left right and centre.
What is it that makes Thais so tough and hard to finish?

While the reasons above make sense, I am of the opinion that Thai fighters are largely unskilled with their hands. They push and pull to create openings for their kicks and knees, and prefer to clinch rather than exchange punches. As punches are usually the most useful strikes to secure KOs, this naturally contributes to the Thais' low KO rate. Look at Thongchai being KOd by Groenhart.
This is NOT to say that all Thais have 'weak boxing' (even though there is some truth to this stereotype imo). There are those who have adapted their style and included a good boxing game (Sittichai, Buakaw). This modernization of Thai Muay Thai is something which I am very much looking forward to. However, as of yet, the Thais are stuck in their ways and, while tremendously effective in most cases, this traditional, slow, rhythmic style has holes which are easily exploited.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

While the reasons above make sense, I am of the opinion that Thai fighters are largely unskilled with their hands. They push and pull to create openings for their kicks and knees, and prefer to clinch rather than exchange punches. As punches are usually the most useful strikes to secure KOs, this naturally contributes to the Thais' low KO rate. Look at Thongchai being KOd by Groenhart.
This is NOT to say that all Thais have 'weak boxing' (even though there is some truth to this stereotype imo). There are those who have adapted their style and included a good boxing game (Sittichai, Buakaw). This modernization of Thai Muay Thai is something which I am very much looking forward to. However, as of yet, the Thais are stuck in their ways and, while tremendously effective in most cases, this traditional, slow, rhythmic style has holes which are easily exploited.

Also muay thai footwork is very limited so the thais cannot create angle to score KOs. they just stand in front of each other punching the guard. the one thing that could lead to more KOs is their complete lack of head movement, but since most of them are midgets, you still don't see knockouts very often. once the thais understand the concept of neo-footwork and implement boxing into their training, then they can start to fill in those holes that are abused by international kickboxers.

 

[AbeRudder]

lol I feel like RichardN7 has had the 'thais have no hands' myth debunked to him numerous times but he just ignores it then comes back to the forum a month later and says the same thing

 

[Snubnoze707]

lol I feel like RichardN7 has had the 'thais have no hands' myth debunked to him numerous times but he just ignores it then comes back to the forum a month later and says the same thing

Yup, I was going to own him but realized I've already done that multiple times in the past. @UWanaPlayDaGame played the game properly.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

More experienced/smarter fighters = Less mistakes and less unnecessary risks = Less KO's

Good example is Floyd Mayweather (who I love to use as an example because I think he has many similarities to stadium fighters). Winning by outpointing opponents with the least risks possible. Chess not Checkers. If you know your ahead why take an unnecessary risk? Smart for the fighter and safe for the gamblers. Also the fights are very evenly matched. Thai's "can" be very good at match making in the big stadiums. Like having one fighter come in a couple pounds higher because he's just a little bit less skilled than the other.

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

Their boxing is still shit and as someone mentioned the rhythm of the fight is slow in the first two rounds due to gambling.

Not to mention most of these guys Train when they're like 5 so they're evenly skilled/matched from the get go.

 

[stingren]

They have to fight every week to feed there families so they have a gentleman a rule most of the time,that's why leg kicking is less utilised then body kicks

 

[Kanka]

Their boxing is still shit and as someone mentioned the rhythm of the fight is slow in the first two rounds due to gambling.

Not to mention most of these guys Train when they're like 5 so they're evenly skilled/matched from the get go.

See the guy in blue?


Here that guy fighting for the WBA world title


Please educate yourself before making such statements. There are countless of examples of muay thai fighters being succesful in boxing. More succesful than any kickboxer or mma fighter.

Just to name a few: Samart, Jomthong, Somrak, Sirimongkol, Yodsanan, Veraphol, Superbank (payanchya longchin), Knockout CP Freshmart, Saensak Muangsurin,

 

[AbeRudder]

Did superbank do much in boxing? I thought he only fought in the amateurs and failed to make the olympics?

 

[AbeRudder]

I think Sam could have done well pretty well in boxing. I know his opponent is a journeyman but considering that it was his first boxing fight I thought he looked good.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

Also muay thai footwork is very limited so the thais cannot create angle to score KOs. they just stand in front of each other punching the guard. the one thing that could lead to more KOs is their complete lack of head movement, but since most of them are midgets, you still don't see knockouts very often. once the thais understand the concept of neo-footwork and implement boxing into their training, then they can start to fill in those holes that are abused by international kickboxers.

Wow, I was about to go off on that guy, but this gave me a chuckle.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

While the reasons above make sense, I am of the opinion that Thai fighters are largely unskilled with their hands. They push and pull to create openings for their kicks and knees, and prefer to clinch rather than exchange punches. As punches are usually the most useful strikes to secure KOs, this naturally contributes to the Thais' low KO rate. Look at Thongchai being KOd by Groenhart.
This is NOT to say that all Thais have 'weak boxing' (even though there is some truth to this stereotype imo). There are those who have adapted their style and included a good boxing game (Sittichai, Buakaw). This modernization of Thai Muay Thai is something which I am very much looking forward to. However, as of yet, the Thais are stuck in their ways and, while tremendously effective in most cases, this traditional, slow, rhythmic style has holes which are easily exploited.

You forget roughly 50% of a Muay Thai fighter's arsenal= Clinch fighting, elbows and their effectiveness in scoring and controlling your opponent which makes it less important or even less desirable to employ a Dominick cruz neo footwork, or stick and move, or high output (dutch style) combo game in order to win a contest or dominate your opponent. Maybe this is more useful under K-1 rules where you can't sneak an elbow in while your opponent is throwing a long punch combo, and clinch is discouraged and broken up almost immediately to where it loses its effectiveness in wearing out your opponent physically, but if you are talking about K-1 rules please specify so.

No, they are not un-evolved, the scoring hierarchy and importance of techniques are just different, Muay Thai is NOT, I repeat NOT Queensbury rules or K-1 kickboxing so stop trying to stereotype it and compare it in that way.