Opinion Why do other workers support the corporate mentality?

[cooks1]

I spent 23 years working my way up in the corporate world before starting my own company. My company now, while not large, is no longer what I would consider 'small'. Just under $3 million in sales for 2017. So I have now spent time in all the slots. Entry level employee, middle management, upper management, and owner.

I speak to college classes and work in mentor programs regularly. there I try to pass on what I have learned.

When dealing with an employer, I advise people to treat their employer exactly the same way the employer treats them. Not the way you want to be treated. The way you are treated.

I don't mean this from a respect or professionalism perspective. You should always be respectful and professional. What I mean is that whatever boundaries an employer places on you, you should place on them. And if they are not willing to play by the rules they ask you to play----move on.

I would give you an example. Many organizations are insanely metric driven. If you don't sell X, you will be put on a performance plan, if you fail to improve, you are gone. There is nothing good or bad about this provided you are given the tools to succeed. What makes it good or bad is whether they hold themselves to the same standard on the other end of the performance curve.

If a company is holding you to metrics to keep your job, you should be holding them to metrics for additional compensation and raises. 'If I am 10% over my plan for 2 consecutive years, you will raise my base salary to X or promote me to X' Many companies do this. Many do not. Find one that does.

 

[cooks1]

Corporations have found a way to hurt their bottom line in their desperate attempts to milk every penny they can out of every asset they have, including human assets.

A lot of corporate people would laugh at this statement and tell me I know nothing of business, but the truth is most corporations can only think quarter to quarter and maximizing their profit in those quarters.

Most don't even consider the long term sustainability of their practices. Example: most corporations pay their employees the least amount of money they can while simultaneously providing the least amount of equipment/accommodations that they can for the employees to get the job done.

Short term it seems like a good idea to pay as little as possible for labor/equipment. Long term you have to hire and retrain new people year round and continue to repair/replace cheap equipment.

I'm honestly surprised that most corporations continue to practice business in this manner, but as long as the tax payer is there to bail out shitty companies I guess it will keep on rolling this way.

While you make a few good points, you are missing the bigger picture in some other areas. Particularly on the equipment/accommodation front. Sometimes going cheap is taking the long view.

Take the transportation world for example. Domestic capacity is very tight. Yet there is very little growth in supply of space while demand for it continues to grow robustly. And fuel prices have gone down a lot- which has lowered costs and increased profits. Why no large increase in trucks on the road? Pretty much any national or regional LTL carrier could add 15% more trucks to their fleet overnight, immediately have loads for them, and quickly find drivers for them. Even though drivers are getting harder to find and keep. Why don't they do it? (By the way, if you need a well paying job today, get your commercial license and become a truck driver. 50-80 K right out of the gate)

The answer is they are waiting before making an enormous capital expenditure. Because the technological landscape might be changing very soon.

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...wheeler-delivers-the-first-shipment-beer.html

 

[oldshadow]

I've been blue collar all my life so I haven't seen this in the way stated.

You fuck with people where I worked and accidents could happen or people would not help or support you.

Sure some went on but people made life impossible for shit heads and even those at management level were schooled at playing nice with others.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

You dont seem to have one dude. Staying at work longer is valuable for an employer. Obviously they are going to reward that behavior and consequently "punish" or weed out people who dont keep up with the pack.

fuck 'em, ''the man'' gets me for my contracted hours, take your overtime and shove it up your ass......not happy with it, and trying to weed me out, have a word with my union

 

[all caps]

"G's do what they want
Bustas do what they can
Stop fuckin around and be a man"

 

[MaxMMA]

While you make a few good points, you are missing the bigger picture in some other areas. Particularly on the equipment/accommodation front. Sometimes going cheap is taking the long view.

Take the transportation world for example. Domestic capacity is very tight. Yet there is very little growth in supply of space while demand for it continues to grow robustly. And fuel prices have gone down a lot- which has lowered costs and increased profits. Why no large increase in trucks on the road? Pretty much any national or regional LTL carrier could add 15% more trucks to their fleet overnight, immediately have loads for them, and quickly find drivers for them. Even though drivers are getting harder to find and keep. Why don't they do it? (By the way, if you need a well paying job today, get your commercial license and become a truck driver. 50-80 K right out of the gate)

The answer is they are waiting before making an enormous capital expenditure. Because the technological landscape might be changing very soon.

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...wheeler-delivers-the-first-shipment-beer.html

Great point, but that still doesn't explain why corporations generally treat their workers like shit.

I worked in a large chain warehouse for several years, people quit and new people we're hired bi weekly. A new training class started every two weeks the entire time I was employed.

The work was hard and fast paced and the pay was not really comparable to the work being done, was the main reason people quit that job. Common sense says pay the people you have enough money to want to stay for the long haul, which would allow your employees to pull the same numbers year after year.

Instead they paid crap and had to hire new people every two weeks and typically took those people 3-6 months before they could pull even average numbers.

These types of nonsensical business practices are a lose lose for everyone involved.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Oh look its the bi-weekly "capitalism sucks" thread with rehased arguments that have been shot down 1000s of times.

 

[cooks1]

Great point, but that still doesn't explain why corporations generally treat their workers like shit.

I worked in a large chain warehouse for several years, people quit and new people we're hired bi weekly. A new training class started every two weeks the entire time I was employed.

The work was hard and fast paced and the pay was not really comparable to the work being done, was the main reason people quit that job. Common sense says pay the people you have enough money to want to stay for the long haul, which would allow your employees to pull the same numbers year after year.

Instead they paid crap and had to hire new people every two weeks and typically took those people 3-6 months before they could pull even average numbers.

These types of nonsensical business practices are a lose lose for everyone involved.

This is an excellent example of something that happens a lot on the corporate world. And it does seem to defy common sense and basic logic. And I would agree with you that this kind of practice is not in the best interests of a company in the long run.

Having said that, employing the strategy you outlined above can and often does have real financial benefit----to the company.

When hiring employees on a large enough scale, the constant turnover tactic not only ensures a company will have employees at the low end of the pay scale, it also lowers the % of employees that a company will have to contribute towards other benefits like insurance, retirement, etc. Another big profit saver.

Often, large publicly traded companies are much less likely to have aligned interests with large chunks of their employee base. Publicly traded companies have stockholders to answer to. Stockholders are just one other entity that can have interests not aligned with employees interests.

This is why I spent 100% of my corporate career with privately owned companies. Now- they can also have interests not aligned with employees. But they are not faced with the constant dilemma of choosing between their stockholders and employees.

Privately owned corporations, that are well funded, are more likely to take the long view. Companies go public because they want or need money. Either to cash out or to expand. To get that they must give up a large amount of control. A successful, well run privately owned corporation, that invests most of it's profits back into the company, will not need stockholder money to expand. Of course this can limit the rate of their expansion at times.

Once a private company gets to a critical mass in it's industry, it is going to be easier for them to outperform their publicly owned counterparts, and they almost always take better care of their employees.

I am not a fan of the Koch brothers. But from a business standpoint, they do it right. They invest 90% of the profits back in the company. A privately owned $100 Billion company can pretty much do whatever the fuck it wants.

 

[Hatake88]

Oh look its the bi-weekly "capitalism sucks" thread with rehased arguments that have been shot down 1000s of times.

can you please show me the holes in my argument?

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

can you please show me the holes in my argument?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

workplace stress belongs in the Mayberry not warroom.

 

[Joe265]

Hey guys

This year is my first in the corporate world and, to be honest, I am a bit shell shock. Not just by the work but more so by the people.

I just can't grasp why people choose to act the way they do and how they manage to find any enjoyment out of it.

For example, let's start with long hours. From an employer's POV, I can understand why they want employees to work as long as possible (to maximise profits). But, if you aren't an equity partner, then why does it matter what time someone in a different team leaves or if someone wants to leave a little "early" after they've finished all their work? Why are people - especially junior staff like myself - so proud of how many hours they've worked? Why is it that people "compete" in such stupidity when all this does is grind on their own mental and physical health?

This feeds into a central theme of the lack of kindness in the corporate world (kindness both to yourself and to others). As children, we are taught lessons like "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't stay it", "just focus on yourself, not others", "be brave and speak up when something is wrong" and " try to put yourself into other people's shoes". These aren't awe-inspiring concepts at all (and are fundamental to creating a safe and comfortable workspace for everyone) yet people don't abide by them.

As adults, we go around constantly monitoring each other, talking smack about each other (always laughing about the "what" instead of asking "why") and - when people see others get bullied - they turn away. Its just...wrong. And the most frustrating part about all of this is that others don't seem to know or care. "Its always been this way" and "that's the rules" aren't valid explanations.There is a better way to do things if only people will put themselves and those around them first rather than profit margins - because, at the end of the day, wealth isn't just monetary.

I can already see the responses calling me doe-eyed, naive etc. but its just terrible for me coming out of a smaller university (where things tend to be quieter and more honest) to my current workplace where a large majority of people seem to be fake and/or mean-spirited. The worse part is that I work with some of the supposedly smartest people in my country...yet is killing yourself and others around you really the intelligent thing to do? I've meet some incredibly narrow-minded people in my life...some of which include the Oxford/Cambridge/NYU/Yale graduates I work with day to day.

I just don't understand their mentality and, as unmanly as it sounds, it hurts me to see people treating themselves and others like that.

I am an investment banker btw.

P.S. My question is in the thread title.

You are a sensitive person. You haven’t adapted to the harshness and lack of humanity in this system, and you are confused as to how others are able to. It’s because they aren’t as sensitive to these things. You react with judgement because you assume others can feel what you do. They don’t. So no need to judge them. Better to be compassionate.

By the way, may I ask what your ethnic background is?

 

[Joe265]

My favorite, are the one's who say I was raised with a good work ethic, so that explains their cuckery.

Did your parents also raise a shitty capitalist?

I may not be the biggest fan of vulture capitalism, but I certainly understand how it works. Capitalism is about leverage, and workers who bend over and present themselves for pegging, willingly give up their leverage for no compensation.

They are shitty capitalists. As in they aren't good at it. That is the problem with most kiss ass workers.

One day the truth about a consumer based economy will be revealed, which is that we actually benefit more, INFINITELY more, when we share everything generously. Because the primary commodity in this system is just the illusion of money.

 

[fishNjits]

I am an investment banker btw.

I fucking KNEW this was coming. I worked on Wall Street for 29 years as a sell side equity analyst.

Wall Street isn't the real world. Anyone, including me, that's left Wall Street for Corporate America will tell you it's night and day.

First, as Superpunch noted, Wall Street is insanely cutthroat. The pay can be huge, but to get that kind of pay you have to be noticed. That means putting in the hours. Your boss did it, his boss did it. You have to do it.

Second, I'm guessing you're a tweenie - somebody fresh out of undergrad but before grad school. You're expected to work a couple of years, get a good recommendation and go to an Ivy business or law school. Tweenies are totally abused - it's been ever such. 18 to 20 hours per day stretches have always been the norm. Every once in awhile, you read about some tweenie that collapsed/died/committed suicide because of the workload. The Wall Street firm promises changes to the tweenie program but after a couple of weeks, everything goes back to the way it was. In the 1980s, I roomed with a fraternity brother in NYC that was a tweenie; my friend would be crying at night.

Third, Wall Street is simply just a fucked up place. I developed a theory years ago that it reflected so much uncertainty...if an analyst recommends a stock, is it going to work? If an investment banker recommends a merger, will it be successful for his client? If a trader buys a stock, will it go up? When's the next bear market; will I lose my job? This uncertainty, in my opinion, leads to people lashing out and demeaning others in order to make themselves feel better. While it happens in Corporate America, it's nothing like what happens on Wall Street.

 

[all caps]

I fucking KNEW this was coming. I worked on Wall Street for 29 years as a sell side equity analyst.

Wall Street isn't the real world. Anyone, including me, that's left Wall Street for Corporate America will tell you it's night and day.

First, as Superpunch noted, Wall Street is insanely cutthroat. The pay can be huge, but to get that kind of pay you have to be noticed. That means putting in the hours. Your boss did it, his boss did it. You have to do it.

Second, I'm guessing you're a tweenie - somebody fresh out of undergrad but before grad school. You're expected to work a couple of years, get a good recommendation and go to an Ivy business or law school. Tweenies are totally abused - it's been ever such. 18 to 20 hours per day stretches have always been the norm. Every once in awhile, you read about some tweenie that collapsed/died/committed suicide because of the workload. The Wall Street firm promises changes to the tweenie program but after a couple of weeks, everything goes back to the way it was. In the 1980s, I roomed with a fraternity brother in NYC that was a tweenie; my friend would be crying at night.

Third, Wall Street is simply just a fucked up place. I developed a theory years ago that it reflected so much uncertainty...if an analyst recommends a stock, is it going to work? If an investment banker recommends a merger, will it be successful for his client? If a trader buys a stock, will it go up? When's the next bear market; will I lose my job? This uncertainty, in my opinion, leads to people lashing out and demeaning others in order to make themselves feel better. While it happens in Corporate America, it's nothing like what happens on Wall Street.

All of this stress, anger, depression and slavery for something that, in the grand scheme of things, means absolutely nothing. I will never spend my time on this earth living like that.

 

[fishNjits]

All of this stress, anger, depression and slavery for something that, in the grand scheme of things, means absolutely nothing. I will never spend my time on this earth living like that.

It ain't for everybody, it's a young man's game, and it gets harder every year.

 

[machidafan99]

If what you posted is true your chosen field that is ultra-competitive in nature and creates people who are mercenary in their behavior.

I think you are bullshitting but that's the reality.

Hey guys

This year is my first in the corporate world and, to be honest, I am a bit shell shock. Not just by the work but more so by the people.

I just can't grasp why people choose to act the way they do and how they manage to find any enjoyment out of it.

For example, let's start with long hours. From an employer's POV, I can understand why they want employees to work as long as possible (to maximise profits). But, if you aren't an equity partner, then why does it matter what time someone in a different team leaves or if someone wants to leave a little "early" after they've finished all their work? Why are people - especially junior staff like myself - so proud of how many hours they've worked? Why is it that people "compete" in such stupidity when all this does is grind on their own mental and physical health?

This feeds into a central theme of the lack of kindness in the corporate world (kindness both to yourself and to others). As children, we are taught lessons like "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't stay it", "just focus on yourself, not others", "be brave and speak up when something is wrong" and " try to put yourself into other people's shoes". These aren't awe-inspiring concepts at all (and are fundamental to creating a safe and comfortable workspace for everyone) yet people don't abide by them.

As adults, we go around constantly monitoring each other, talking smack about each other (always laughing about the "what" instead of asking "why") and - when people see others get bullied - they turn away. Its just...wrong. And the most frustrating part about all of this is that others don't seem to know or care. "Its always been this way" and "that's the rules" aren't valid explanations.There is a better way to do things if only people will put themselves and those around them first rather than profit margins - because, at the end of the day, wealth isn't just monetary.

I can already see the responses calling me doe-eyed, naive etc. but its just terrible for me coming out of a smaller university (where things tend to be quieter and more honest) to my current workplace where a large majority of people seem to be fake and/or mean-spirited. The worse part is that I work with some of the supposedly smartest people in my country...yet is killing yourself and others around you really the intelligent thing to do? I've meet some incredibly narrow-minded people in my life...some of which include the Oxford/Cambridge/NYU/Yale graduates I work with day to day.

I just don't understand their mentality and, as unmanly as it sounds, it hurts me to see people treating themselves and others like that.

I am an investment banker btw.

P.S. My question is in the thread title.

 

[Prutfis]

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

 

[Seaside]

Things work that way because you chose a job that pays $150k/ year right out of college with the potential to make millions in a few years. If you want a more relaxed, less cutthroat job, they exist but you knew what investment banking was going in.. What you're describing isn't normal corporate culture just like getting punched in the face isn't normal work culture. It's normal if you're a UFC fighter though. You chose a very niche job. If you want less hours and a less cutthroat environment, you should be a teacher, an engineer, a government worker, etc. I don't know why you're using investment banking as a general criticism of work culture? That's absurd.

Yeah American investment banking salaries are amazing. It seems if you get your foot in the door and just dont fuck up and play the game by the time your 50 you will have few million saved (depending how you choose to spend) or few million invested.

Investment banking, especially entry level, is also what it is because it's a low or no-skilled job. It's supposedly finance but an engineer, or probably even a woman's study major with a few math and Excel classes, can pick it up as easily as a finance major can. It pays $150K entry level. It potentially pays millions in a few years. Now why would a low or no-skilled job do that? By getting the most intelligent, competitive people to do it. It's a niche culture for a reason.

On the other hand, even entry level engineers have some kind of leverage over there employers: their skills. Only engineering majors have those skills, and they can leverage that in smaller or mid sized markets where there aren't gluts of STEM majors. Just like investment bankers can eventually leverage a very rare 2-3 years of investment banking experience for incredible exit opportunities that pay millions of dollars or less demanding jobs like consulting that pay hundreds of thousands for their rare experience.

Edit:

Going into investment banking and complaining about the work culture's hours and cutthroat competition is like..

Going into the Marines and complaining about the work place's focus on killing. Going into the UFC and complaining that you get punched in the face at work. Going into engineering and complaining about the work place's focus on math. And then generalizing that to all jobs.

Not all make 150k straight i read they are at work a lot but there is a lot of down time. I doubt someone without any finance training can just so easily pick it up. And what about those who stay on to become associates? And i dont think engineers have the same cieling of pay. People in finance seems sky is limit in pay. But engineers and kawyers tend ti have a much lower cieling. The only jobs were you can become a multi millionaire or billionaire working for someone else seens to be finance. Or multimillionaire as a pro athlete.

My favorite, are the one's who say I was raised with a good work ethic, so that explains their cuckery.

Did your parents also raise a shitty capitalist?

I may not be the biggest fan of vulture capitalism, but I certainly understand how it works. Capitalism is about leverage, and workers who bend over and present themselves for pegging, willingly give up their leverage for no compensation.

They are shitty capitalists. As in they aren't good at it. That is the problem with most kiss ass workers.

Moses Hess was right not Marx. State communism but along racial lines and realism will win one day.

Your post reeks of the entitled millennial mentality.


We literally have it the easiest anyone in human history has. Man the fuck up.

Workers actually have less bargaining power and work more hours than many times before. The late 19th and early 20th century saw workerd living and working in relstive powerless times not seen scenes days of serfs in mass. But even then the workers worked more hours than farming serfs. Being stuck somewhere for fucking 12 hours or 13 is insane.

 

[MPD-Psycho]

This seems to be loosely related to the concept of management antipatterns. You can read it up more on the web since I can’t really explain it better. So, not all companies are like what you said since some are aware of it.

Also, in some companies, the way high skill vs. low skill workers are treated very differently. Coincidentally that might be related to the concept of exempt vs. clock employees as well.