Why Do Boxers Do A Lot Of Sit-ups?

[Sinister]

A lot of guys will swear by high repetition bodyweight stuff, while others will live and die by heavy powerlifter-esque stuff. I don't want to be forced to choose, so I do both. I can then ensure I am improving both my muscular endurance and getting "stronger".

If/when you come here, to fight at the weight class you want to with your height the first thing Vilo is going to tell you is to stop lifting weights. lol

 

[Brando]

If/when you come here, to fight at the weight class you want to with your height the first thing Vilo is going to tell you is to stop lifting weights. lol

Yup and I'm totally prepared to do that. I'm going to phase it out of my training as is and replace it with bodyweight stuff and medicine ball work anyways. I'm still growing though and I'm at sort of a wierd spot with my weight. I'm fighting at 151 but I weigh in at about 146 so I do have some room to grow in the ammy ranks atleast, so as long as lifting isn't hindering my skill and conditioning work, it should be alright until the day I make the jump to pro.

 

[Fedorable]

So when someone answers your question, and even invites you to train with them, the best you can do is insult them? Wonderful.

I sound like a meathead? What precisely does a meathead sound like praytell?

And out of the "Boxers" here, there's only a couple that are actually training a Pro system, which is Worlds different than an amateur or a "just getting in-shape" system. So the answer you seek could be variable upon the person. If you want an answer from a Professional standpoint (which that's what it seems because not even all "Boxers" do a lot of sit-ups), you're going to get a little flack for that because the answers are right in front of your face if you even look at Boxing at all. But let's address some of your questioning issues, and your ideas of telling people how to train despite never a day in your life training a regimen designed to succeed in this specific sport (which I did a whole thread on why not to take the tone of "I don't get it, there's better ways" about Sports rich with SUCCESSFUL traditions"). Okay? Let's begin at the beginning:



First of all the problem with this is that Boxers below the heavyweight division do not traditionally lift weights. Now we've had every debate as to why, and I personally have never seen a reason nor viable example to stray away from this tradition. I myself fight at 147, but I walk around heavier. With as much training as I do (2 sessions per day, up to 6 days per week), fitting in weights would just be too much. The floor exercises give me as much strength as I need without the risk of either injury or just plain overworking the muscles. Cardio is much more important, as is muscle endurance, for which high-rep bodyweight exercises are much more viable. One could argue high-rep weights are just as viable, but again, there's just not more reason to do that versus floor exercises. Now out of the routines of many many former World Champion Boxers I've seen, I've only seen two lower weight class fighters take exception to this. Kostya Tszyu and Ricky Hatton. Hatton has a very odd style dependant upon physical strength, and his body-type responds well to weight training, and also he detracts from other areas of his training to add in the weights. I doubt very few other people have his natural gifts, so there's not a whole lot of reason to copy his routine which features weights. Kostya Tszyu is a physical exception simply because he's gifted as an athlete to where he has astonishing muscle endurance naturally. So his body can withstand both lifting and a full Boxing regimen. This is very rare. However the very simple floor exercises + running + technique training has led many people who are not exceptionally gifted to World Titles. So what's better? A basic formula that works? Or people who have never Boxed or won Titles telling people otherwise?



No one in Boxing wants large abs. Remember, Professional Boxing is also a gambling Sport. Hell gambling is most of the Sport's vitality honestly. So, if they see someone with large abs the betting odds are going to go one way. One could argue this is good because you could have someone you know bet the farm against you, but it won't always work out that way. Reason being agility is very important in the ring. Having large abs could get in the way of this, it could throw off the dimensions of torquing and twisting the core to be able to punch properly, and bobbing and weaving to avoid getting hit. Also in Boxing, bigger bodyparts = bigger target. Even if someone's abs had added cushioning, if they were distended, that's where I'd be punching. If I focus on that, chances of landing a liver or kidney shot are increased. Now, looking at someone with a toned flat 6-pack it has the aesthetic ideal of being like a sheet of metal. You're not so sure if you punch them there it'll hurt or not.

Now, if you WANT to not do sit-ups because you're afraid of them you can make any excuse you want. Like using the internet as a means of making a decision based in opinions of people who don't do what it is you're asking in the first-place (which should be taken into consideration). I'm not saying that's your perspective, but I'll know by your response, which will be if you take every viable reason in the Professional game I gave you and attempt to dismantle it when odds are you have never trained this way a day in your life.

This is the reason I called it rude. It's simple etiquette. You don't walk into a Muay Thai gym and go "Why do Muay Thai guys do a lot of kicking drills, I mean pshhh, there's better ways, I don't understand." The best way to make a decision, find out how they train and do what they do. If it works, stick to it.

Just keep in-mind that what you're questioning here are not simple gym practises that people with no credibility are feeding you. You're questioning things that have been done by and continue to be done by people who win titles, and make money doing this. So don'tbe shocked if they're a little touchy about it. The simplest answer is they do it because it works.

I never said that all boxers do it, I was speaking of a general stereotype.

I never told anyone how to train correctly or said there were better ways for a boxing workout. I just stated some of the things I was thinking about and why it didn't make sense to me to do tons of sit-ups.

Why Muay Thai guys do kicking drills is much more obvious than why some boxers do certain ab exercises. This is a forum. A place to ask questions, talk about experiences, etc...so I don't understand your point of view of not asking questions if you realize that my thread wasn't about revolutionizing the world of boxing, but trying to learn about something I didn't understand since I am starting boxing this week to compliment my jiu-jitsu. The classes are generally short. They will be mostly skill type drilling and sparring so I have to take on any extra conditioning and strengthening upon myself. I am pretty busy and I don't want to spend time doing something if there are better ways and if doing a lot of sit-ups is the better way, then I don't want to spend my time doing something less effective or vice versa.

I appreciate your effort to explain things, but I don't really like your tone too much :icon_cry2

 

[WVfighter81]

One reason boxers do a lot of sit ups is to strengthen their core, because if you dont have a strong core u probably wont take too many shots to the body, and likewise you wont be as quick and explosive without a strong core. There are other exercises to strengthen your core but I believe and I think anyone else thats ever fought will also agree that sit-ups should be the foundation in working your core, and I absolutely hate doing them but know they are important

 

[Sinister]

I never said that all boxers do it, I was speaking of a general stereotype.

No one ever said you said that. Your thread-title speaks for itself.

I never told anyone how to train correctly or said there were better ways for a boxing workout. I just stated some of the things I was thinking about and why it didn't make sense to me to do tons of sit-ups.

If you've never taken part in a Boxing program, then you're taking more freedom with this line of thought than you should be. It's better to have a go at something to gain proper understanding of it, than to question it without giving it a go. Common sense.

Plus, after saying you don't tell anyone how to train you go on to say:

I am pretty busy and I don't want to spend time doing something if there are better ways and if doing a lot of sit-ups is the better way, then I don't want to spend my time doing something less effective or vice versa.

This is what every kid says who is afraid. "I don't wanna blah blah blah if I can blah blah blah." It's not an insult, anyone in here who is in a serious gym can tell you the same thing. But typically, once they're in the shit, they decide for themselves and it comes down to either they want to learn to Box or not, to be in-condition or not. If you do, you'll do what is asked of you, if you don't you won't.

Why Muay Thai guys do kicking drills is much more obvious than why some boxers do certain ab exercises.

Not if you watch Boxing it isn't.

This is a forum. A place to ask questions, talk about experiences, etc...so I don't understand your point of view of not asking questions if you realize that my thread wasn't about revolutionizing the world of boxing, but trying to learn about something I didn't understand since I am starting boxing this week to compliment my jiu-jitsu.

There are ways to ask questions and ways not to. Asking with the undertone of already having decided something doesn't make sense is not the way to go about getting information.

I appreciate your effort to explain things, but I don't really like your tone too much

Liking my tone is not a requisite of taking in what is said. Often times tossing something at someone's head is paramount to getting their FULL attention, and alerting them to tread carefully.

 

[blanko]

good god, it's an internet forum. people take themselves waaaaaaay to seriously.

 

[SPAZ650]

good god, it's an internet forum. people take themselves waaaaaaay to seriously.

ya.... but if people weren't so serious, this forum wouldn

 

[magicman531]

by the way, lifts...they're for the quads, not abs
But yeah, with strong abs you can take body shots, it's also somewhat mental, like, to see if you're serious about this, can he really do that many situps...?

Try doing lifts without using your abs... Oh that's right, you can't! lifts build the whole core because of the very nature of the lift. As do Olympic lifts and squats. And to the person who said quit trying to change something that's existed for decades, smoking at one time was thought to be good for you, weight training was thought to be bad for you, and so on. The majority or "normal" view is not always right. Now open your eyes you close-minded !

 

[xinster]

KK, relative to bag drills and core training, what would you rank ab endurance in priority?

 

[Sinister]

good god, it's an internet forum. people take themselves waaaaaaay to seriously.

That's no reason to have kiss-ass incorrect shit-posting. Besides, I couldn't live with myself if someone didn't do enough sit-ups, got into a ring to fight a match or sparred in the gym, and got KO'd on a bodyshot because of it, when they asked right in front of me how to avoid that. lol

Try doing lifts without using your abs... Oh that's right, you can't! lifts build the whole core because of the very nature of the lift. As do Olympic lifts and squats. And to the person who said quit trying to change something that's existed for decades, smoking at one time was thought to be good for you, weight training was thought to be bad for you, and so on. The majority or "normal" view is not always right. Now open your eyes you close-minded !

Please come up with a better argument if you're going to challenge a sentiment. Or at least put it in the right context. I said not to try to change things that exist for decades SUCCESSFULLY. Fighters today are not smoking, and the majority of the ones below heavyweight, I'd say about 95% of them, are not lifting weights, and still they're winning World Championships and making millions of dollars.

Those posing the counter theories to their training methods, how many days have they spent as Professional Boxers? How many people touting the other "better" ways to do things can list their credibility in this specific sport? The two I know of as a Pro Boxer in-training have been given their due credit. Outside of that it's just a bunch of people who don't Box thinking there's better ways to train as a Boxer, which is inherently stupid.

KK, relative to bag drills and core training, what would you rank ab endurance in priority?

It's IMPERATIVE. Ab endurance can do so much for a fighter. If MMA fighters had ab endurance as a whole, there wouldn't be guys gassing out after the 1st round or mid-way through the second. There wouldn't be guys getting hurt by relatively sloppy body-punches. There wouldn't be guys punching incorrectly and losing balance because when they torque at the waist they cannot stay stable.

In Boxing it's even moreso because you have volume punchers who specifically work the body. So you might take 20-50 bodyshots in one round. A Championship bout is 12 rounds, so imagine what that's like.

 

[Fedorable]

Try doing lifts without using your abs... Oh that's right, you can't! lifts build the whole core because of the very nature of the lift. As do Olympic lifts and squats. And to the person who said quit trying to change something that's existed for decades, smoking at one time was thought to be good for you, weight training was thought to be bad for you, and so on. The majority or "normal" view is not always right. Now open your eyes you close-minded !

I'm not trying to open anyones eyes but my own, but I agree with not being closed minded. If everyone does the same things, then there is no deviation to find alternate ways or even better ways.

Unless you are adding weight to your sit-ups you are not building core strength after about a month or so, unless you make them more difficult some other way, each rep individual rep, not by adding more repetitions. You are strictly building core endurance. Which I know core endurance would be benefictial, but I am not convinced sit-ups are the best way.

I am very curious on the physiological affects of a punch or the accumulation of punches to the ab and how they affects muscle endurance. Would it be the loss of muscle endurance that would make your tired or just the affects the shots have on the tissue. If you get kicked repeatedly in the thigh, would making your leg muscle endurance better help at all? without being conditioned by actually getting hit?

 

[Fedorable]

No one ever said you said that. Your thread-title speaks for itself.

A.) If you've never taken part in a Boxing program, then you're taking more freedom with this line of thought than you should be. It's better to have a go at something to gain proper understanding of it, than to question it without giving it a go. Common sense.

B.) This is what every kid says who is afraid. "I don't wanna blah blah blah if I can blah blah blah." It's not an insult, anyone in here who is in a serious gym can tell you the same thing. But typically, once they're in the shit, they decide for themselves and it comes down to either they want to learn to Box or not, to be in-condition or not. If you do, you'll do what is asked of you, if you don't you won't.

C.) There are ways to ask questions and ways not to. Asking with the undertone of already having decided something doesn't make sense is not the way to go about getting information.

D.) Liking my tone is not a requisite of taking in what is said. Often times tossing something at someone's head is paramount to getting their FULL attention, and alerting them to tread carefully.

One reason for this thread was because of excitement on my part of starting some boxing. You start thinking about it and that was something that popped into my head. I'm not a lemming so I am not going to do much without trying to undestand why I am doing it. I am giving things a go, but as far as extra conditioning, that is up to me.

I admit that sit-ups are hard, but so is jiu-jitsu, heavy squats, running, having a career, and training without a sandbag, etc... Most people only have so much physical and mental capacity for one day. I am going to work my core, no doubt about that, but the means of how I am doing it is up in the air. If sports specific drills coupled with other forms of gpp I do are enough, why use up even more of my capacity for something I don't believe in (which I haven't decided if I believe in them or not.)

You took it the wrong way, thus the meathead comment. Being offensive when there is no reason to.

Liking someone's tone is a requitsite to taking in to what they say. If the person has a meathead tone and is closed minded, then it is very hard to take in what they say.

 

[Fedorable]

A) That's no reason to have kiss-ass incorrect shit-posting. Besides, I couldn't live with myself if someone didn't do enough sit-ups, got into a ring to fight a match or sparred in the gym, and got KO'd on a bodyshot because of it, when they asked right in front of me how to avoid that. lol

B) Please come up with a better argument if you're going to challenge a sentiment. Or at least put it in the right context. I said not to try to change things that exist for decades SUCCESSFULLY. Fighters today are not smoking, and the majority of the ones below heavyweight, I'd say about 95% of them, are not lifting weights, and still they're winning World Championships and making millions of dollars.

C) Those posing the counter theories to their training methods, how many days have they spent as Professional Boxers? How many people touting the other "better" ways to do things can list their credibility in this specific sport? The two I know of as a Pro Boxer in-training have been given their due credit. Outside of that it's just a bunch of people who don't Box thinking there's better ways to train as a Boxer, which is inherently stupid.

D) t's IMPERATIVE. Ab endurance can do so much for a fighter. If MMA fighters had ab endurance as a whole, there wouldn't be guys gassing out after the 1st round or mid-way through the second. There wouldn't be guys getting hurt by relatively sloppy body-punches. There wouldn't be guys punching incorrectly and losing balance because when they torque at the waist they cannot stay stable.

In Boxing it's even moreso because you have volume punchers who specifically work the body. So you might take 20-50 bodyshots in one round. A Championship bout is 12 rounds, so imagine what that's like.

A.) Don't be so hard on yourself mr kabuki.

B.) If 95% of a population is doing something, then it is hard to judge how effective that method is since they are all going against themselves, maybe if there is something on the history of boxing workouts where the addition of high repetition sit-ups shows an explosion of winning boxers over a short amount of time, that would be really interesting.

C.) I am not training to be a boxer, it is complimenting my jiu-jitsu. I also am also deadlifting heavy, grip training, and doing olympic lifts. My core will not get stronger from muliple sit-ups then it is now.

D.) Actually watching things on MMA fighters got me thinking about the sit-ups. I thought a lot of them take on the theory of boxers on ab training. My only guess is that the gloves are smaller, so it's easy to get affected by a body blow. MMA fighters also have to take into account take down defense, so that could affect form and most of all, they don't box as much as boxers, so of course they usually won't have the skill set.

I agree and always have agreed that ab endurence is very important, my line of thought was more on if sit-ups are necessary when you take into account all of the other core training I do. The single best way of improving upon something in my opinion is to do that primary thing. While doing that primary thing, is that sufficient ab training since it is completely the sports specific thing. Do my other forms of GPP suppliment it enough?

 

[magicman531]

I am very curious on the physiological affects of a punch or the accumulation of punches to the ab and how they affects muscle endurance. Would it be the loss of muscle endurance that would make your tired or just the affects the shots have on the tissue. If you get kicked repeatedly in the thigh, would making your leg muscle endurance better help at all? without being conditioned by actually getting hit?

I'd imagine it would be similar to how your arm gets in the game hit for hit. At first it doesn't feel to bad but after a few hard hits your arm starts getting sore and gets worse from there.

KK your mind is shut off completely to the outside world. If that's okay with you then so be it. I'm only glad that there have been people in the world smart enough to know that we can better ourselves, in all aspects. From transportation, cooking, cleaning, and fighting. People have come up with news ways of doing things, better ways. Are all the old time fighting methods worthless? No. Can some be improved? Sure. Do I know which ones? No, I don't. But, if everyone had your mindset we'd still be roasting bear meat over a fire after we'd killed it with our sharpened rocks and sticks...

 

[Sinister]

You took it the wrong way, thus the meathead comment. Being offensive when there is no reason to.

Liking someone's tone is a requitsite to taking in to what they say. If the person has a meathead tone and is closed minded, then it is very hard to take in what they say.

Your interpretation was to be offended. Words on a screen lack tone, so how you perceived tone in relatively monotone sentiment is beyond me. While especially overlooking the part attempting to distinguish my statement as not being indicative of offensive behavior.

In other words, it would take seeking offense to find it. Some people take what could be perceived as offensive statements and laugh at them. The responsibility for that would be on both of us, not just me.

You never did define what a meathead sounds like BTW, hence my inability to avoid possibly sounding like one.

Oh and BTW, I like how you and magic continue to call me closed-minded, when you are both ones rejecting the idea that something that works has existed and continues to exist as it does because it DOES work.

Who then is being closed-minded?

D.) Actually watching things on MMA figh
ters got me thinking about the sit-ups. I thought a lot of them take on the theory of boxers on ab training. My only guess is that the gloves are smaller, so it's easy to get affected by a body blow. MMA fighters also have to take into account take down defense, so that could affect form and most of all, they don't box as much as boxers, so of course they usually won't have the skill set.

It's my understanding that none of these things are an excuse in MMA. Especially given the trend of MMA practitioners and fans alike attempting to portray that MMA stylists are every bit as viable athletically as Boxers are traditionally. Currently I only agree that the elite of the MMA world, in the UFC for example the Rich Franklin's, Matt Hughs's, and Chuck Liddel's are of that caliber. And most of them have training that is every bit as focused and elaborate on core endurance as Boxers. Hence their pension for ab-endurance specifically. None of them exhibit the problems I listed, despite every reason for it you named.

KK your mind is shut off completely to the outside world. If that's okay with you then so be it. I'm only glad that there have been people in the world smart enough to know that we can better ourselves, in all aspects. From transportation, cooking, cleaning, and fighting. People have come up with news ways of doing things, better ways. Are all the old time fighting methods worthless? No. Can some be improved? Sure. Do I know which ones? No, I don't. But, if everyone had your mindset we'd still be roasting bear meat over a fire after we'd killed it with our sharpened rocks and sticks...

lol@you.

Yes I am so shut off and closed to the outside World that I drove my car all the way across the Country in order to get my ass kicked on a daily basis to turn Professional in the Sport in-question. How closed of me. I sought out a Professional Boxer, now train with him, who was handed down his regimen from a former two-time World Champion. I do what is told to me, because it has worked for Boxers all around the World competing from the Amateur ranks to the WBA, IBF, WBO and WBC top ten ranked contenders and Champions.

I am such a closed-minded fool.

 

[aaron_mag]

I am not training to be a boxer, it is complimenting my jiu-jitsu.

That is the problem right there. Well it isn't actually a problem, but it is the reason why people come at it from different angles.

Kabuki is training to be a professional and he has a professional mindset. Nothing wrong with that. I respect people who sacrifice like he does for his dream.

You, on the other hand, are 'dabbling' in it to crosstrain. In essense it is a hobby for you. You aren't willing to put the time into it that Kabuki is putting into it. There is nothing wrong with that either. I do the same thing.

I just, for example, got finished with 5 rounds of Mr. Rutten's MMA workout. I am not, however, training to be an MMA fighter. I just use it as a way to get in a workout after I put the baby to bed, etc. At the end of the day I'm a TMAist who crosstrains in some other stuff because it suits my needs.

BUT if I was trying to become a professional I'd do what the trainer told me to do. His job would be to get me in great fighting shape and it would be stupid to hinder him from doing that. Having an experienced trainer in such a situation is obviously crucial. You never see a professional say, "Yeah. I'm working on my own little system to get ready for this fight. I don't do the rope skipping thing because I've never liked it too much. I'm replacing that with a set of squats. Works just as well..."

 

[BigBurger]

I think it has something to do with fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fibers. It seems to be a perfect exercise to build them both. Slow twitch fibers are for prolonged performance (constant bobbing and weaving, throws, submissions, punches, kicks) over the course of a fight. The higher reps you can do, the longer the lactate acid build up is delayed. Fast twitch fibers are for short bursts of energy (tightening before impact etc.). the higher reps you do, the stronger and quicker your abs can react to a blow.

sit ups combine for an excellent overall ab exercise, stimulating both types of muscle fibers, all with leaving you with the rest of the time to spar, cover techniques etc.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[bodybagger32]

by the way, deadlifts...they're for the quads, not abs
But yeah, with strong abs you can take body shots, it's also somewhat mental, like, to see if you're serious about this, can he really do that many situps...?

Depending on how you do deadlifts, they can be used to build strength in your back or legs. They will work your abs as well. Don't speak on something you don't know anything about, it makes you look stupid.

 

[Fedorable]

A.) Oh and BTW, I like how you and magic continue to call me closed-minded, when you are both ones rejecting the idea that something that works has existed and continues to exist as it does because it DOES work.

Who then is being closed-minded?

B.) It's my understanding that none of these things are an excuse in MMA. Especially given the trend of MMA practitioners and fans alike attempting to portray that MMA stylists are every bit as viable athletically as Boxers are traditionally. Currently I only agree that the elite of the MMA world, in the UFC for example the Rich Franklin's, Matt Hughs's, and Chuck Liddel's are of that caliber. And most of them have training that is every bit as focused and elaborate on core endurance as Boxers. Hence their pension for ab-endurance specifically. None of them exhibit the problems I listed, despite every reason for it you named.

C.) lol@you.

QUOTE]

A.) I am not in any association with magic man. I never rejected any ideas, but I have been trying to for my own opinions which aren't formed and probably won't be for quite a while, but that is no reason not to try and understand something.

B.) That would depend on the individual. I've said a few times I agreed with the importance of core endurance and ab-endurance. I haven't agreed that a high rep sit-up regiment is that best way to achieve that.

C.) That isn't very nice.

 

[Sinister]

C.) That isn't very nice.

That remark wasn't aimed at you. Look at the quote directly above it. If you're not associated with magic, then I'd think you should maybe not either defend or respond to commentary tossed his way.

A.) I am not in any association with magic man. I never rejected any ideas, but I have been trying to for my own opinions which aren't formed and probably won't be for quite a while, but that is no reason not to try and understand something.

This is something I've attempted to address with you. By indications of your previous posts you've already decided to an extent that doing a lot of sit-ups made no sense to you even before you began this thread. That's called a pretense, to some degree you had already rejected the notion of the practice before asking about it. Following this up with the idea that there might be better ways to do something as it specifically pertains to Boxers and Boxing, questioning that most of them (myself included) stick with tradition on matters like this only serves to slightly further that underlying pretense. My main point is when you want understanding from a specific group of people, leave out the pretense.