Why didn't Gene Lebell ever roll with the Gracies?

[Intermission]

Bob Wall claimed Gene Lebell was unmatched in grappling. Chuck Norris said Gene was the toughest guy he knew.

Why isn't there even training footage of Lebell rolling with the Gracies?

 

[Dana's Moonface]

Gracies wouldn't want that smoke

 

[Bluesbreaker]

Because the Gracies only released footage of them winning?

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Pretty sure there is a story about this. That basically gene challenged helio, but gene was in his 60s and helio was in his early 80s. So the gracies nominated gene fight a rorion I think instead, but he was 20 years younger than gene and gene said no thanks. So nothing ever happened.

 

[NoSmilez]

Martial arts used to be really cult like in America. It still is but at least you can cross train nowadays. People didn't cross train unless they were really friendly. It's also why you see old timey martial arts folks with 10 different black belts. They just did a little bit of training with another "master" and they get awarded with a black belt.

Gene Lebell predates the Gracies in America. He was in his 30s during the 1960s. The first Gracie came around the US during the 80s? Lebell would have been close to 65 during the first few UFCs. Gokor would have been the better representative. He didn't have much MMA experience though. He had that fight with the some Japanese stuntman who was posing as another fighter.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Off topic, but all the goofy bent arm shoulder locks, bicep slicers, calf slicers and bent knee locks I'm seeing all over TikTok or youtube shorts are things gene lebell put in his grappling books like 30 to 40 years ago.

 

[Highway99]

One of the few people who can say they trained with Ed "Strangler" Lewis and Karl Gotch.


btw, this clip of him is funny as fuck:

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxSKxWpz4EFVYVdh7kkWrYEgyaUBgCrzhw

 

[Deleted member 449757]

Probably the same reason the Gracies never rolled with Chris Dolman.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

I seem to remember Rorion telling a story about visiting a judo club when he moved to America and beating all the black belts, but Gene ran away by the time he got to his side of the mat.

Utter bullshit, of course. I don't believe anyone corroborated the story either.

 

[LEWIS540]

Because he didn’t want to get sucker punched in a 5 on 1, probably.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I seem to remember Rorion telling a story about visiting a judo club when he moved to America and beating all the black belts, but Gene ran away by the time he got to his side of the mat.

Utter bullshit, of course. I don't believe anyone corroborated the story either.

Charlie zellenoff kept the gracie strategy alive.

Challenge people then change the rules on the fly to claim victory no matter what happens.

 

[stinkoman]

The closest thing I know is the Machado's bros (Gracies Cousins) Rolled with Gene and both sides spoke highly of each other over the years and considered Gene a friend.

 

[shunyata]

Pure hearsay, but I thought I half remembered a story about Rorion trying to book a proto MMA fight against Benny Urquidez back in the day.

When the Gracies found out Benny had been training grappling with Gene and Gokor they immediately stopped pursuing the fight.

They wanted to tap a famous kickboxer on film, but not if he'd been crosstraining grappling.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

The closest thing I know is the Machado's bros (Gracies Cousins) Rolled with Gene and both sides spoke highly of each other over the years and considered Gene a friend.

The Machado family is so incredibly classy compared to the Gracies.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I seem to remember Rorion telling a story about visiting a judo club when he moved to America and beating all the black belts, but Gene ran away by the time he got to his side of the mat.

Utter bullshit, of course. I don't believe anyone corroborated the story either.

Pretty sure I remember that too.

Edit: here it is. Sounds like bullshit. But on principle, even if there were some truth to it, what kind of asshat brags about beating people up in training, let alone someone "ducking you" in training? And as a MFing red belt - dude should be way above that kind of petty BS.

 

[Intermission]

Pretty sure I remember that too.

Edit: here it is. Sounds like bullshit. But on principle, what kind of asshat brags about beating people up in training, let alone someone "ducking you" during training?

The same guys who labelled Kimura a Jiujitsu practitioner.

 

[Hotora86]

Charlie zellenoff kept the gracie strategy alive.

Challenge people then change the rules on the fly to claim victory no matter what happens.

I never thought about this from this angle but jokes aside, you're pretty much right.

The "custom rules" each times a Gracie fought a grappler were just pure cheating. Most of the "draws" they had would have been UD losses if judges were allowed to make a verdict.

 

[Intermission]

From comment page

"There's another story about when you visited my school, the US Taekwondo Center in the early 90s in Newport News, Virginia. I remember you."

I asked the gentleman if he knocked him out. Rorion deleted my comment

 

[Deleted member 449757]

I seem to remember Rorion telling a story about visiting a judo club when he moved to America and beating all the black belts, but Gene ran away by the time he got to his side of the mat.

Utter bullshit, of course. I don't believe anyone corroborated the story either.

I bet Sensei Seagal was at this judo club and Rorion ran away before they got a chance to grapple.

 

[Kforcer]

Pretty sure there is a story about this. That basically gene challenged helio, but gene was in his 60s and helio was in his early 80s. So the gracies nominated gene fight a rorion I think instead, but he was 20 years younger than gene and gene said no thanks. So nothing ever happened.

It was the reverse; the Gracies challenged Gene, who was vastly older than him and he responded by challenging Helio, I think in a somewhat tongue and cheek manner.