Why did Tyson have such a short prime?

[CastletonSnob]

Tyson's prime only lasted about 3-4 years. Why was it so short? Was it because of his personal issues, or was his style just not built for longevity?

 

[FléauDeDieu]

He lost the hunger and drive to be the best - i.e. fucking Japanese maids before your fight the next day.
He was on his way back to the top before he was sentenced to prison, then when he came out he was surrounded by yes men, Don King and mediocre trainers.

Holyfield was written off as a has been by the time of the first fight, even though he'd been training like a dog the entire time in preparation. It was the same with Buster Douglas back in Tokyo.

He talks about it in his autobiography, if I remember right he did like one week worth of training before the Lewis fight. I'm sure that was his attitude to most of his fights after scrapping Rooney.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Cus died then Don King came in and forced Kevin Rooney out as Mike's trainer. Ever since Kevin Rooney stopped training Mike he went downhill. I put most of the blame on Don King.

 

[revoltub]

Because he went to jail

 

[Deaths Head]

You can’t sustain that style on that elite level he was without being on point with making little to no mistakes ,the timing has to be on point to the style he was trained in that fit his skills . This was gone as soon as he walked out of the ring after Spinks fight in 1988 . Prison time didn’t help either but without a Rooney he would not have looked the same anyway and that’s because his training took a dive because he slacked off .

His prime would have been short regardless , no fighter could keep up that kind of intensity being a counter puncher against tall fighters over a long period without even a slight drop in skills . Tyson had burnt out quickly being so fast tracked to ,his prime could have made it to maybe a Lewis coming in the game but beyond 1994 its highly doubtful we would see a 80”s Tyson even if he had Rooney and avoided prison ,this in turn avoids a Douglas defeat and he goes undefeated a good 5 more years with his head on straight going through Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis .

Those years absent from boxing did him in but he was still good enough to be a top guy almost always anytime he was focused .

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Prison.

 

[TheGreatA]

It happens. I think he was regaining his form a little bit in the Ruddock fights, he was in there with a tough guy and got the job done, but prison put an end to it.

Around 1992-1993 he would have had a good chance beating Holyfield and Lewis. Bowe would've been tough.

A lot of fighters have screwed up in their physical primes, taken an opponent lightly and lost to a highly motivated guy who presented a difficult style. Could Tyson have come back from that to still be a force throughout the early 90's? Possibly.

 

[mozfonky]

a lot of reasons, many which i will never know, but.., of course, the easy ones, drugs, alcohol, fame, women, money all took him way off course. You ad in the fact that he really was only 5-11 in an era of giants, with a 72 inch reach and you have a very muscular welterweight fighting naturally bigger men. I also believe that many of the men who fought him were amped more than they ever would be before or again, so, they would have their best night on one of his worst.

I also think that his very appearance made the whole division better and brought out the best in bowe, lewis, holyfield who would have all given him problems on their best nights anyway. Like Ali before him who inspired nearly all the heavyweights who he had to fight in the 70s, at least to some degree, he created his own competition by his example, unlike ali, he lost to some of them when he wasn't firing on all cylinders.

 

[mozfonky]

You can’t sustain that style on that elite level he was without being on point with making little to no mistakes ,the timing has to be on point to the style he was trained in that fit his skills . This was gone as soon as he walked out of the ring after Spinks fight in 1988 . Prison time didn’t help either but without a Rooney he would not have looked the same anyway and that’s because his training took a dive because he slacked off .

His prime would have been short regardless , no fighter could keep up that kind of intensity being a counter puncher against tall fighters over a long period without even a slight drop in skills . Tyson had burnt out quickly being so fast tracked to ,his prime could have made it to maybe a Lewis coming in the game but beyond 1994 its highly doubtful we would see a 80”s Tyson even if he had Rooney and avoided prison ,this in turn avoids a Douglas defeat and he goes undefeated a good 5 more years with his head on straight going through Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis .

Those years absent from boxing did him in but he was still good enough to be a top guy almost always anytime he was focused .

if he could have added to his game and kept improving, like his idol, duran, he could have done more I believe. He still had good toughness and for a champ who is among the most knocked out of all the notable HW champs, he arguably had the best chin. However, if, but, whatever, the game is 90 percent mental and i'm not sure if he ever had that.

 

[mozfonky]

It happens. I think he was regaining his form a little bit in the Ruddock fights, he was in there with a tough guy and got the job done, but prison put an end to it.

Around 1992-1993 he would have had a good chance beating Holyfield and Lewis. Bowe would've been tough.

A lot of fighters have screwed up in their physical primes, taken an opponent lightly and lost to a highly motivated guy who presented a difficult style. Could Tyson have come back from that to still be a force throughout the early 90's? Possibly.

I'm with you, a lot of people think he looked awful, anytime after spinks, i don't, i think he was close to what he was for a few fights and alex wallau thought his straight right at least was actually improved. The guy who fought the four fights after the Douglas fight would have given Holyfield a very tough night and probably would have beaten anyone else, even without the old skills.

 

[mozfonky]

Prison.

i always thought that at least from a physical standpoint, he never looked better than he did for the mckneely, bruno and mathis fights. then, unbelievably, he came in out of shape and overconfident once again for holyfield. I think he could have come back all the way had he only had a great team around him, he didn't. I remember shaking my head as soon as he left prison in that stupid kufi, shielded from cameras by a paid clown practically arm and arm with Don King. Still i hoped for better for him and still do.

 

[TheGreatA]

I'm with you, a lot of people think he looked awful, anytime after spinks, i don't, i think he was close to what he was for a few fights and alex wallau thought his straight right at least was actually improved. The guy who fought the four fights after the Douglas fight would have given Holyfield a very tough night and probably would have beaten anyone else, even without the old skills.

Tyson was such a tank that he did not even require all of his skill-set. Devoid of the skills, he still possessed world-class power, speed, reflexes, durability, and when trained well, endurance.

I always felt like the head movement of Tyson, while fancy, wasn't all that necessary for a guy who had a chin carved out of granite. I doubt the results against Spinks, Holmes, Berbick, etc. would've been affected too much if he had thrown fewer combinations or if he had eaten a few more punches. Ultimately he was just too powerful, explosive, quick to react.

Problem with his comeback was that he had gotten significantly slower too, particularly on his feet. By the 2000's he was pretty much slow as molasses outside of a few bursts.

It is weird that he looks faster at 50+ than he did in his late 30's.

 

[mozfonky]

Tyson was such a tank that he did not even require all of his skill-set. Devoid of the skills, he still possessed world-class power, speed, reflexes, durability, and when trained well, endurance.

I always felt like the head movement of Tyson, while fancy, wasn't all that necessary for a guy who had a chin carved out of granite. I doubt the results against Spinks, Holmes, Berbick, etc. would've been affected too much if he had throw fewer combinations or if he had eaten a few more punches. Ultimately he was just too powerful, explosive, quick to react.

Problem with his comeback was that he had gotten significantly slower too, particularly on his feet. By the 2000's he was pretty much slow as molasses outside of a few bursts.

he was slower, yes, but still faster than just about any other heavyweight. by the time of the holyfield fight, he'd picked up too many bad habits to win against a well schooled fighter like Evander. You could see him telegraphing his punches and not recovering on guard after throwing his bombs, too many bad habits and no way of fixing them in midfight. It was all down hill from there of course.

 

[Deaths Head]

if he could have added to his game and kept improving, like his idol, duran, he could have done more I believe. He still had good toughness and for a champ who is among the most knocked out of all the notable HW champs, he arguably had the best chin. However, if, but, whatever, the game is 90 percent mental and i'm not sure if he ever had that.

Mike was only 20 or so he would have been more motivated against the 90”s punchers very similar to his Bruno fight after the Douglas one and Ruddock but under Rooney his combinations would be flowing ,he was a stop and go fighter nothing looked real fluid after Rooney left even if it looked good to most ,I think punchers would have made the best Tyson come out and there wasn’t many in the 80”s at that time 86 to 89 but the only thing he could have added was better inside game in the clinch where he would need it sometimes he was lazy and let guys rest there and coast .

 

[Hagler]

Well, he wasn't the most mature fella and his management failed him big time.

 

[mozfonky]

Well, he wasn't the most mature fella and his management failed him big time.

no he wasn't, , the game is ninety percent mental.. ali had as many or more idiots around him, taking his money, bringing him women before fights, not really encouraging him to train right and he still achieved what he did. So, I wonder why tyson couldn't, maybe he just didn't have it.

He's my man though, the fastest heavyweight just behind patterson with his hands but with more speed overall. A thing of aesthetic, balletic beauty at his best and a spectacle of brutality at his most devastating. The heavyweight of our generation who didn't quite make it to the heights of ali and louis but he was ours.

 

[Hagler]

So, I wonder why tyson couldn't, maybe he just didn't have it.

Two great athletes. A focused, driven individual, and a child.

 

[mozfonky]

Mike was only 20 or so he would have been more motivated against the 90”s punchers very similar to his Bruno fight after the Douglas one and Ruddock but under Rooney his combinations would be flowing ,he was a stop and go fighter nothing looked real fluid after Rooney left even if it looked good to most ,I think punchers would have made the best Tyson come out and there wasn’t many in the 80”s at that time 86 to 89 but the only thing he could have added was better inside game in the clinch where he would need it sometimes he was lazy and let guys rest there and coast .

people were pointing out problems right from the Bruno fight, I didn't see all that much difference myself at the time but it was the talk. the williams fight was nothing to gauge anything off of, the douglas fight was and is the biggest upset in boxing and some say sports history.

 

[mozfonky]

Two great athletes, one focused, driven individual.

ali wasn't that focussed for the majority of his 70's fights, and he still dominated the heavyweight landscape, one that is often cited as the best era in it's history. Tyson fell apart in the douglas and holyfield fights, badly, not only was he not competitive, not only could he not make it to the final bell, he probably didn't win more than 2 rounds each of those. Hell, Ali won four rounds against journeyman/champion trevor berbick on one of his worst nights, when he was old, brain damaged and past shot. So, I still have to go with the dimensions of tysons frame really being a handicap.

 

[burningspear]

no he wasn't, , the game is ninety percent mental.. ali had as many or more idiots around him, taking his money, bringing him women before fights, not really encouraging him to train right and he still achieved what he did. So, I wonder why tyson couldn't, maybe he just didn't have it.

He's my man though, the fastest heavyweight just behind patterson with his hands but with more speed overall. A thing of aesthetic, balletic beauty at his best and a spectacle of brutality at his most devastating. The heavyweight of our generation who didn't quite make it to the heights of ali and louis but he was ours.

Was Ali's family around? Before and after Cus, Tyson seemed pretty much alone, without role models to respect and guide its a bad bad world.