why bodybuilders look bigger than fighters?

[McBryde Mats LLC]

Great post ^^^^ and DAMN those are some calves on Grepiel!

 

[Bubblun]

I think it has to do with training fast twitch vs slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch fibers are larger and stronger but have less endurance. Slow twitch fibers are smaller and not as strong, but can go much longer. Bodybuilders look amazing, but they'll fade much quicker than someone with more slow twitch fibers. I think that this is why Joe Rogan says that big muscles can be a liability when going the distance in a fight. They also require more blood and oxygen and thereby limit cardiovascular output.

Compare two different types of cyclists. A rider competing for overall victory in a 3-week race like the Tour De France will look like a twig (also because power to weight is hugely important when climbing uphill, not so much for sprinting on a flat road).

This is Chris Froome, currently the fastest stage racer in the world and a very good climber. He's can go hard for hours, but will get smoked in a short sprint against a lot of riders. He's not much to look at with his slow twitch muscles:

This is Andre Greipel, one of the top sprinters at the moment. He's still skinny by bodybuilder standards because he has to be able to stay with the group hauling himself up the climbs before he can sprint for the finish line, but the difference in size between him and Chris Froome is still obvious. He struggles more with the longer efforts, especially climbing, but when it comes down to a short, all-out effort towards the finish line then his muscle becomes an advantage. He has significantly more fast twitch muscle and is therefore larger.

It has nothing to do with fast or slow twitch fibers, that's genetic, bodybuilders looks like that because of hypertrophy, they have greatly increased the size of their fibers.

Hypertrophy is the result of their training, their diet, their lifestyle and obviously drugs.

 

[Robocok]

It has nothing to do with fast or slow twitch fibers, that's genetic, bodybuilders looks like that because of hypertrophy, they have greatly increased the size of their fibers.

Hypertrophy is the result of their training, their diet, their lifestyle and obviously drugs.

http://blog.nasm.org/fitness/fast-twitch-slow-twitch-whats-difference-matter/

"Slow-twitch, Type I

These muscle fibers have high concentrations of mitochondria and myoglobin, and although they are smaller than the fast-twitch fibers, are surrounded by more capillaries (1,2)."

"Fast-twitch, Type II

Our fast-twitch, type II muscle fibers are further divided into type IIx and type IIa. Typically, these have lower concentrations of mitochondria, myoglobin, and capillaries compared to our slow-twitch fibers and are quicker to fatigue (1,2). These larger-sized fibers are also able to produce a greater and quicker force, an important consideration for power activities (1,2)."

As I understand it, muscle fiber type is based on genetics, but can also be altered with training to an extent.

 

[Bubblun]

To an extent yes, but very little, and mostly fast twitch ----> slow twitch.

Elite sprinter you are born, not made, Carl Lewis was said to have up to 90% fast twitch fibers, that mean he was a pure speed/power talent.

According to a german sport science book that i have, Werner Gunthor only had 40% fast twitch muscle fibers, but with training he managed to increase their volume a lot.

 

[McBryde Mats LLC]

It has nothing to do with fast or slow twitch fibers, that's genetic, bodybuilders looks like that because of hypertrophy, they have greatly increased the size of their fibers.

Hypertrophy is the result of their training, their diet, their lifestyle and obviously drugs.

that doesnt make sense? Hypertrophic training, such as German High-volume training was structured to hit the fast twitch fibres by using lots of volume.
Any bodybuilder will tell you hard work > genetics

 

[j123]

that doesnt make sense? Hypertrophic training, such as German High-volume training was structured to hit the fast twitch fibres by using lots of volume.
Any bodybuilder will tell you hard work > genetics

And reality is
Drugs (top-tier quality, not crap ones) > hard work + genetics

There are guys who devote their lives to bodybuilding, know how to train and diet properly, and still can't make it past pre-judging due to whatever (bad calf genetics, bad face, etc)

 

[Bubblun]

that doesnt make sense? Hypertrophic training, such as German High-volume training was structured to hit the fast twitch fibres by using lots of volume.
Any bodybuilder will tell you hard work > genetics

And that is exactly what i tried to say, maybe i wasn't clear.

Having an insane amount of fast twitch fibers isn't everything if you want to get huge and strong, the most important factor is to increase the volume of fibers, hypertrophy.

 

[B Nizzle]

I think it has to do with training fast twitch vs slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch fibers are larger and stronger but have less endurance. Slow twitch fibers are smaller and not as strong, but can go much longer. Bodybuilders look amazing, but they'll fade much quicker than someone with more slow twitch fibers. I think that this is why Joe Rogan says that big muscles can be a liability when going the distance in a fight. They also require more blood and oxygen and thereby limit cardiovascular output.

So in relevancy to this thread you would argue bodybuilders have more fast twitch muscles? Become BB resemble the sprinters more than the long-distancers

 

[Robocok]

So in relevancy to this thread you would argue bodybuilders have more fast twitch muscles? Become BB resemble the sprinters more than the long-distancers

I think maybe they're training their fast twitch muscles to gain their size. Fast twitch muscles seem to have a greater capacity for hypertrophy.

A long distance specialist like Chris Froome could still get big with the proper training and nutrition (drugs help too), but his maximum potential for size will be lower than a pure sprinter.

 

[spiderguarda]

And that is exactly what i tried to say, maybe i wasn't clear.

Having an insane amount of fast twitch fibers isn't everything if you want to get huge and strong, the most important factor is to increase the volume of fibers, hypertrophy.

Exactly. Their goal is size and shape. There's recent research that claim the muscle fiber of bodybuilders have less contractile force than even ordinary athletes or some other population. This is rather contradictory but Brad Schoenfeld did a study where he argued that total volume not necessarily lifting heavier increases hypertrophy. Hypertrophy can be achieved using heavy or lighter weights. Of course he says those who lift heavier are well stronger while the ones lifting lighter weights have better endurance.

 

[Kgeorge]

Uhhhh its all about the types of roids and dosages.... not the way they train

 

[freaky]

compact muscle

 

[Robocok]

Exactly. Their goal is size and shape. There's recent research that claim the muscle fiber of bodybuilders have less contractile force than even ordinary athletes or some other population. This is rather contradictory but Brad Schoenfeld did a study where he argued that total volume not necessarily lifting heavier increases hypertrophy. Hypertrophy can be achieved using heavy or lighter weights. Of course he says those who lift heavier are well stronger while the ones lifting lighter weights have better endurance.

So you can achieve the same size with 10lb dumbbells as with 100lbs? I don't think that's correct

 

[Pope Leo VII]

muscles achieved from muay thai weigh less then muscles earned from lifting..