Who here doesn't think Fedor Emelianenko is not ranked in the top 5 MMA fighters of all-time?

Who here doesn't think Fedor Emelianenko is not ranked in the top 5 MMA fighters of all-time?

  • Total voters
    287
BFoe said:
The only thing I’m “coping” with are hot takes from noob fans who don’t know wtf they’re talking about.

Anderson was booked to fight Leben and then get a TS because he was a known champ from another org. He wasn’t an up-and-coming prospect, he had been SHOOTO MW (modern WW champ), had a successful PRIDE career, then won and defended the Cage Rage MW title before coming to the UFC. Somewhat similar to Jiri coming over as RIZIN champ and only needing 2 fights to get a TS.

Islam is an arguable, debatable LW GOAT, but nowhere in the same realm as Jones or Silva, that’s ludicrous. Jones ran the LHW division for like 9 years (suspensions notwithstanding), and Silva ran MW for almost 7 years. Islam was the man at LW for a measly 2 1/2 years (and does not have more title wins than Fedor). Beating the LW title defense record is good, although he had to defend twice against a FW to do it, and it’s always good to win a title in another weight class. But let’s keep things in perspective: JDM never had a single WW title defense, and Islam was nowhere close to cleaning out the LW division. People like GSP, Fedor, Jones, and Silva are light years ahead of Islam in all time rankings.

But hey, Islam headkicked that FW, so I guess he’s just like Anderson Silva!

<{1-17}>
He got planked by Adriano Martins FFS, meanwhile Silva is devastating with both hands, both elbows, both knees, both feet… his striking is miles and miles and miles better than Islam’s. Goodness sakes.


Pretty sure Jones has 13 ranked wins. Unless Stipe is #14? I can look when I have time, that definitely seems like something the UFC would do, with their janky rankings. Stipe hadn’t fought in 3 1/2 years, really had no business being ranked if he was.
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Wow, you’re really gotten worse, man! You used to make some good counterpoints, but now you’re just petty. Sad.

I’ve been following this sport for more than a decade now, how am I a noob? Because I don’t agree with you? Lol

You’re actually citing Cage Rage championship as an achievement? Lol. It was just another regional org and that MW title stopped existing after Anderson. And are you honestly comparing a win over Chris Leben to 2 wins over Reyes and Oezdemir? Those 2 were former title challengers and way better fighters.

And since when did you get the urge to lie? Islam is 6-0 in UFC title fights, Fedor was 4-0 in PRIDE title fights. So yes, Islam has more title wins. He’s also been a UFC champ for more than 3 years now and he has been p4p #1 for most of that time too.

You’re so disingenuous, it’s becoming disgusting. You’re always declaring Randleman, Coleman and even Arona as great wins for Fedor at HW, yet you call Volk just a FW? Volk is a greater fighter than anyone that Fedor has ever beaten. No one even comes close. And don’t forget that Fedor got his lights turned off by a MW, lol.

Bringing up Adriano Martins? Really? How low will you go? That was 10 years and 16 fights ago, Islam was 23 years old, ffs. It’s like saying GSP was a shit striker because he got finished by Serra and a shit grappler because he got submitted by Hughes.

You’re living in the past trying hard to ignore the accomplishments of guys like Islam, Merab, Topuria and Volkanovski.
 
GOATtalks said:
Wow, you’re really gotten worse, man! You used to make some good counterpoints, but now you’re just petty. Sad.

I’ve been following this sport for more than a decade now, how am I a noob? Because I don’t agree with you? Lol
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I was actually referring more to whomever voted the way they did in that terrible Tapology ranking.

GOATtalks said:
You’re actually citing Cage Rage championship as an achievement? Lol. It was just another regional org and that MW title stopped existing after Anderson. And are you honestly comparing a win over Chris Leben to 2 wins over Reyes and Oezdemir? Those 2 were former title challengers and way better fighters.

And since when did you get the urge to lie? Islam is 6-0 in UFC title fights, Fedor was 4-0 in PRIDE title fights. So yes, Islam has more title wins. He’s also been a UFC champ for more than 3 years now and he has been p4p #1 for most of that time too.
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So my point here is that Anderson Silva was a known fighter, who had held titles in other orgs. Have you ever watched the Silva-Leben fight? Before the fight even starts Mike Goldberg describes Anderson as someone who’s fought and beaten most fighters around the world. That’s why he had a short road to the title.

Respectfully, your entire experience as an MMA fan has existed in a reality where the UFC is so big it’s nearly a monopoly. But it wasn’t always that way. This fight happened in 2006, PRIDE (where Anderson fought previously) still existed although was declining; fans cared about, and followed, Cage Rage, SHOOTO, the WEC, all sorts of orgs.

Comparing Islam to Fedor in that way is just a poor comparison for a number of reasons. One, they’re obviously totally different weight classes, like miles apart; Fedor, with his PRIDE title win + 3 defenses and WAMMA title win + 2 defenses does have more title wins than Islam, and obviously that’s not taking into account his 3 different tournament titles… but of course PRIDE’s model regarding title defenses was totally different anyhow, It’s just an apples-to-oranges comparison, that’s all.

GOATtalks said:
You’re so disingenuous, it’s becoming disgusting. You’re always declaring Randleman, Coleman and even Arona as great wins for Fedor at HW, yet you call Volk just a FW? Volk is a greater fighter than anyone that Fedor has ever beaten. No one even comes close. And don’t forget that Fedor got his lights turned off by a MW, lol.

Bringing up Adriano Martins? Really? How low will you go? That was 10 years and 16 fights ago, Islam was 23 years old, ffs. It’s like saying GSP was a shit striker because he got finished by Serra and a shit grappler because he got submitted by Hughes.

You’re living in the past trying hard to ignore the accomplishments of guys like Islam, Merab, Topuria and Volkanovski.
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Volk is a fine win too. But he’s not a LW, he’s fairly small even at FW, and Islam head kicking him doesn’t make him anywhere close to the striker that Anderson Silva is. That’s just a batshit crazy comparison to make.

My bringing up Adriano Martins is just as relevant as your terrible examples, bringing up Chael on a ton of PEDs taking down Anderson with a broken rib, or past prime Silva being taken down by an Olympic wrestler in DC in a fight he took on like 2 days notice, as evidence that Anderson has bad wrestling. Anderson had solid wrestling, better than people give him credit for— and Islam has solid striking. But no way in hell is Islam the more well rounded and technical fighter, which is what you claimed.

Islam is a beast, I’m a fan. But he’s nowhere near surpassing Anderson Silva, he’s nowhere near surpassing Jon Jones. He certainly has nowhere near the resume or accolades to be considered #2 in the sport all time, that’s just delusional. That’s was one of the worst rankings I’ve ever seen. I’m not the hugest fan of Fight Matrix’s ranking algorithm, but their all time ranking is closer to sanity. They still have Aldo too high, Fedor too low, Volk too high, Islam a bit too low… but GSP, Fedor, Silva, and Jones in the Top 5 and Islam at #12 makes a hell of a lot more sense.
 
I'm just talking about how dominant in their prime they were because I think that's the true definition of greatness


MMA GOATS

Khabib
Silva
Fedor
Jones
GSP

UFC GOATS

Khabib
Silva
Jones
 
For me personally Fedor is probably 4th-6th all-time if I had to make a list. I watched Pride when I first got into MMA and I trained BJJ/grappling when I was young, people worshipped Fedor so I'm not someone who didn't see him fight. I do think he is glorified and overrated to an extent, but I'm still putting him 5th-8th all-time at worst. He might be as high as 3rd.

Jones/GSP are 1A/B or 1/2, there's really no debate with anyone rational who doesn't hold a grudge or delude themselves into thinking Jones is on PEDs while everyone else isn't. Separating person from fighter.

The question is, is Fedor the HW GOAT still? I guess he is. Because if the answer is Stipe who kind of killed his case a bit, or somehow Jones/DC (didn't spend enough time there), or Ngannou? Cain? There's really no one else to put as HW GOAT unless you really, really want to critique and devalue Fedor's quality of opponents on resume'. Which is arguable.

I would say at best he is 3rd-5th all-time. At worst he is still easily top 10 all-time.
 
BFoe said:
I was actually referring more to whomever voted the way they did in that terrible Tapology ranking.


So my point here is that Anderson Silva was a known fighter, who had held titles in other orgs. Have you ever watched the Silva-Leben fight? Before the fight even starts Mike Goldberg describes Anderson as someone who’s fought and beaten most fighters around the world. That’s why he had a short road to the title.

Respectfully, your entire experience as an MMA fan has existed in a reality where the UFC is so big it’s nearly a monopoly. But it wasn’t always that way. This fight happened in 2006, PRIDE (where Anderson fought previously) still existed although was declining; fans cared about, and followed, Cage Rage, SHOOTO, the WEC, all sorts of orgs.

Comparing Islam to Fedor in that way is just a poor comparison for a number of reasons. One, they’re obviously totally different weight classes, like miles apart; Fedor, with his PRIDE title win + 3 defenses and WAMMA title win + 2 defenses does have more title wins than Islam, and obviously that’s not taking into account his 3 different tournament titles… but of course PRIDE’s model regarding title defenses was totally different anyhow, It’s just an apples-to-oranges comparison, that’s all.


Volk is a fine win too. But he’s not a LW, he’s fairly small even at FW, and Islam head kicking him doesn’t make him anywhere close to the striker that Anderson Silva is. That’s just a batshit crazy comparison to make.

My bringing up Adriano Martins is just as relevant as your terrible examples, bringing up Chael on a ton of PEDs taking down Anderson with a broken rib, or past prime Silva being taken down by an Olympic wrestler in DC in a fight he took on like 2 days notice, as evidence that Anderson has bad wrestling. Anderson had solid wrestling, better than people give him credit for— and Islam has solid striking. But no way in hell is Islam the more well rounded and technical fighter, which is what you claimed.

Islam is a beast, I’m a fan. But he’s nowhere near surpassing Anderson Silva, he’s nowhere near surpassing Jon Jones. He certainly has nowhere near the resume or accolades to be considered #2 in the sport all time, that’s just delusional. That’s was one of the worst rankings I’ve ever seen. I’m not the hugest fan of Fight Matrix’s ranking algorithm, but their all time ranking is closer to sanity. They still have Aldo too high, Fedor too low, Volk too high, Islam a bit too low… but GSP, Fedor, Silva, and Jones in the Top 5 and Islam at #12 makes a hell of a lot more sense.
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Lol, WAMMA? You mean that made up title, that was just created specifically for Fedor? Yeah, definitely the same as UFC gold. He fought Sylvia for it, who was coming off a loss and was 1-2 in his last 3. That’s ridiculous to even mention. Islam still has more title wins.

Volk is not a fine win, it’s a great win. A greater win than anyone on Fedor’s record. Volk is not a small FW, he could never make BW and he had competed at LW and even WW before. He weighed 166 lbs on fight night while at FW. How is it small? Also like half of the greatest LW’s are former FW- Oliviera, Poirier, Topuria, Conor, Max etc.

Anyone who had ever tried has taken down and controlled Anderson, including Franklin, Lutter and Marquardt who aren’t know for their Olympic level wrestling. Anyway, MMA consists of 3 realms- wrestling, grappling and striking. Islam is clearly much better than Anderson in 2 of those categories, meaning he’s the more well rounded fighter.

FightMatrix are genuinely good rankings, but their all-time rankings are ridiculous. How can you justify BJ Penn higher than Islam? Or the fact that Topuria isn’t even top35 while Volk is #7 and Max is #8?
 
He's in my top 5, but you can definitely argue there are more than 5 guys who are better than Fedor. It's not 2006 anymore, there has been 20 years of fighters also entering the mix.
 
Fedor is GOD
It's like higher than GOAT
 
GOATtalks said:
How is it an insane take?

He’s the LW GOAT and double champ. Being the GOAT of division and having 2nd belt is GSP and Jones territory.

He never popped for PED’s and has more title wins than Fedor. It’s actually hard to argue that he’s not #2 TBH.

Of course Anderson’s fights were mostly title fights. The division was so bad that he got the title after one win over Chris Leben, ffs.

Anderson a great wrestler? LMAO, I didn’t know you’re a comedian now. Chael held him down for 20 minutes and DC took him down at will.

His BJJ was ok, but not in the same galaxy as Islam.

Islam’s striking is much closer to Anderson’s though. Islam KOed Volk by headkick.

Anyway, Islam has much better wrestling and grappling and maybe slightly worse striking than Anderson, so he’s definitely the more well rounded fighter.

Cope harder.
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It honestly sounds like you didn't really understand how MMA worked. Anderson Silva was a highly established fighter coming into the UFC, so he got a title shot quickly (after destroying someone who was undefeated). This still happens...Jiri did the same exact thing, Kai was even faster.

Regardless, his competition was still much higher on average than Islam's. You cannot compare prelim fighters to championship contenders, regardless if you think they are "shit". The way you think MMA is split into 3 divisions or that Silva's BJJ is just "ok", while someone who doesn't even do traditional BJJ is galaxies ahead of him is very odd. It's like you're trying to gamify MMA. Do you mean to say that Islam is better at fighting on the ground than Anderson Silva? That isn't the same thing as BJJ.

Also...what the hell are you talking about in regards to Daniel Cormier and Chael Sonnen? The 200+ pound wrestling specialist took down Anderson Silva? Wow, that's harsh. Also, you do know that Chael Sonnen also didnt take him down - they fought twice. Anderson Silva fought Daniel Cormier in his 40s and on short notice... I am pretty sure Daniel Cormier would beat up Islam.


You're sitting here saying that Silva is not in the same galaxy in BJJ as Islam, but somehow think that Silva is "maybe just a little better" at striking - someone who literally did exactly what Islam has done except only with striking (even using your own standards, you have just described that Silva is not as well rounded, yet his success is comparable with just striking, and thus...he might not be a better striker in your eyes?).


It's pretty obvious you likely do not understand the landscape of how MMA works, and probably got into the sport during the ESPN era and didn't bother to learn anything about what happened before or how to contextualize it. You probably think BJ Penn was a trash fighter.





Silva for the most part still fought and beat better fighters than Islam. He was less picky about who he fought, would fight on short notice, would fight while injured, and finished nearly all his opponents. For every fighter you want to tear down that Silva fought, you could find an Islam equivalent. Like, how is someone going to be like Forrest Griffin sucks, but JDM is amazing - they are nearly equivalents for their eras.

You likely have no idea how colossal a win over Dan Henderson is, who was a top ten fighter of all time when he retired, and will try to rationalize he wasn't that good it because you looked up that he got laid and prayed by Jake Shields years later. That seems to be the type of logic you're using here. Instead of just lazily saying the MW division sucks (which is funny, considering most of those fighters had success in neighboring divisions), you could step back and realize that Silva killed several fully established top guys.

Islam at the end of the day has "only" fought like 3 elite guys at LW, and 1 guy at WW who was not exactly a dominant champion. Silva has beaten more than 4 good guys, and we can increase it to 5 since he beat Volk twice. No, Volk at 155 is not lightyears ahead of Dan Henderson, who was literally a world champion at 185.


I have Islam well within my top ten of all time, but this analysis of how Silva isn't that good because...basically he is not a grappler and he is "only" a 1 division champion is pretty fucking stupid. He was literally seen as an equal to GSP, and most of the arguments against him were braindead propaganda like MW's aren't good or something (ignoring that he beat guys who were champs in other divisions).
 
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Just too many weird freak show type fights litter his career. Like in his prime he was fighting bums who’d end up getting armbarred by fucking Butterbean for fuck’s sake and guys with records of 0-1. Who else did that?
 
StewDogg11 said:
Just too many weird freak show type fights litter his career. Like in his prime he was fighting bums who’d end up getting armbarred by fucking Butterbean for fuck’s sake and guys with records of 0-1. Who else did that?
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He only fight Zulu because that card had big fights fall through, and they needed him to take a fight on a month's notice. Fedor wasnt originally supposed to fight on NYE, but they needed him.
 
Fedorgasm said:
HW is the only class where you might have to fight guys 50 pounds heavier than you.

Nobody else has to deal with that
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Because being 50 pounds heavier than someone when you're over 200 pounds probably means you are fat lol.

HW is one of the least competitive weight classes in every combat sport. Fedor's best opponents were nowhere near 50 pounds heavier than him, if anything they were lighter than Fedor.

It's not like Fedor was regularly fighting Overeem, Ngannou, Lesnar's of the world. He was not considered undersized.
 
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