Who had more talent - Strikeforce or Bellator/PFL Combined

[zxyss25]

I remember Strikeforce had a STACKED HW division, and Cormier was an up and coming fighter, who got attention after he won the HW Grand Prix
Ubereem was probably up there with Cormier as a top 5 HW when he was still juicing, as he destroyed Brock
Werdum was also top 5 and would become HW champ in UFC

The other HWs were good, borderline top 15 the time - Barnett, BigFoot, SergeiK, Arlowski - but no match for the top 10 UFC - Cain, JDS, Carwin, Mir, Big Nog, Travis Browne

Strikeforce also had some other great fighters- top 5 in their weightclass - Jacare, Mousasi, Dan Henderson, Luke Rockhold, Gibert Melendez, Nick Diaz, Josh Thompson,

Plus they had some up and comers who become better in the UFC - Jorge Masvidal, Tyron Woodley, Robbie Lawler, Ronda Rousey



Bellator/PFL also had some great fighters, who were top 5 in their weightclass at some point

Eddie Alvarez would become UFC Champ
Hector Lombard was on pace to become UFC champ before he got caught juicing - similar to Ubereem
Michael Chandler/Justin Gaethje - both top 5 LWs
Will Brooks was a huge hype train that didint pan out

MVP Michael Page will become a top 10 WW in the UFC

Vadim Nemkov might be the best LHW outside of Jon Jones

 

[nostradumbass]

Strikeforce easily. They had top guys in their prime who became champs and top contenders in the UFC after they came over. Bellator and PFL is usually guys who already washed out of the UFC or are past their prime. Eddie actually did win the belt, but he was never the best LW and got his shot off a loss and 2 split decision wins and got completely destroyed in his first defense and went 1-1-1 after that.

 

[skylolow]

Strikforce looks very good in hindsight. But at the time it was very top heavy with little depth. Lot of the prospects really turned out to be great fighters in the end.

Bellator/PFL has more quality depth across the weight classes. Lot more to work with right now than Striforce ever had. Though Strikeforce had a few bigger name valued guys at the top.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Strikeforce

 

[tehMoose]

Coker really has a great eye for talent. Both orgs were stacked with great fighters

Chandler was already past prime when he got signed (he got murked in 1 min by FW Patricio before that) and he was really competitive with UFC's best LWs. I think Usman, Shabliy, McKee would mop the floor with Chandler tbh. And you also have Tofiq who would be really competitive with Chandler

MVP wasn't really top 5 in Bellator (Lima was better than him and Storley beat him and both of them didn't really had anything for Amosov and Jackson). Koreshkov would beat MVP as well imo and maybe few others (Larkin, Kuramagomedov, Poclit) but those are harder fights to predict

Nemkov and Mix would be champs in the UFC

Eblen and Amosov top 5

Sarvarjon Khamidov, Timur Khizriev, Khasan Magomedsharipov, Norbert Novenyi would also be ranked high in the UFC easily

Aaron Pico is on a roll too, he can KTFO anyone but he can also get finished by them too.

 

[CashMoney1991]

MW and up- Strikeforce
WW and down- Bellator/PFL

 

[RockyLockridge]

So far it's strike force and it's not close.

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

gaethje didnt come from bellator but from wsof? or some other org

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

gaethje didnt come from bellator but from wsof? or some other org

WSOF=PFL, they changed the name.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

I just think it's amusing that you're taking a very specific window of time within Strikeforce, and comparing that to TWO different other organizations spanning 15 years. Lombard and Nemkov? One last fought there almost 15 years ago. One fights today. Hardly a realistic sample size for comparison.

 

[mkt]

Vadim Nemkov might be the best LHW outside of Jon Jones

Prime Cormier also beats Nemkov consistently and prime Rumble KO's him more than 50% of the time. Don't forget Nemkov was having serious issues with Corey Hill in their first fight. I certainly think prime versions of Chuck, Machida, Rampage, Couture, Rashad, Shogun, etc. would have a chance. He's going to have to fight LHWs better than Hill/Bader/Davis (all fighters who couldn't earn a title shot in the UFC...and David/Bader were in their late 30s when they fought him) before we declare him the runner-up GOAT, lol.

 

[BlackBradPaisley]

Given how Strikeforce birthed one of the greatest fighters of our generation in Daniel Cormier, i’mma go with Strikeforce.

This is a no-brainer type question btw.

The best you could say for Bellator/PFL is that, once the aquisition of Bellator comes into full-swing, the UFC will have a lot of bit players that could shake things up in the divisions they’ll fall into — AJ Mckee, Kayla Harrison, Patricky and Patricio, etc

 

[mkt]

I just think it's amusing that you're taking a very specific window of time within Strikeforce, and comparing that to TWO different other organizations spanning 15 years. Lombard and Nemkov? One last fought there almost 15 years ago. One fights today. Hardly a realistic sample size for comparison.

Yeah, this is all a big mess with totally convoluted timelines. Stikeforce got most of the Pride HWs (but not much of anything else) along with Cormier and had an absolutely stacked HW division..but not much depth elsewhere. For example, they had problems finding a good opponent for Nick Diaz at WW while the UFC was stacked with WWs. But all those orgs had some good LWs at the same time (Alvarez in Bellator; Melendez/Thomson in Strikeforce and Pettis/Bendo if you want to throw in the WEC).

But yeah, when Hector Lombard and Nemkov are mentioned in the same conversation spanning 15 years and 3 orgs, it's not anything you can analyze seriously.

 

[mkt]

MVP wasn't really top 5 in Bellator (Lima was better than him and Storley beat him and both of them didn't really had anything for Amosov and Jackson). Koreshkov would beat MVP as well imo and maybe few others (Larkin, Kuramagomedov, Poclit) but those are harder fights to predict

This is so bad from a known low-IQ Mousasi cultist and anti-UFC fanatic that I'll just address this hilarious part. How could MVP not be a Top 5 WW when he went 17-2 in Bellator and his only losses were to guys you mentioned? What's more, he went 1-1 with Lima and had a close SD with Storey. He was literally a Top 5 Bellator WW after he won his couple of fights there until he left--for almost 10 years.

Just stop.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Yeah, this is all a big mess. Stikeforce got most of the Pride HWs (but not much of anything else) along with Cormier and had an absolutely stacked HW division..but not much depth elsewhere. For whatever reason, all those orgs had some good LWs at the same time (Alvarez in Bellator; Melendez/Thomson in Strikeforce and Pettis/Bendo if you want to throw in the WEC).

These conversations always seem trite to me, anyway. This is a mercenary sport. Outside of a few outliers, most competitors will compete around a circuit throughout their careers. I love when people mention "Strikeforce fighters" and then identify someone like Hendo or Diaz, as if those guys in any way "grew up" under that banner. Even Melendez fought for Shooto and WEC.

That said, conversations around which organizations "controlled" the majority of high level talent in a division at a specific time are reasonable topics.

Strikeforce did manage to scoop up a solid group of heavyweights, but outside of that, it was mostly just small a handful of longer investments such as Thomson, Melendez, Cung Le etc., coupled with the boon of capitalizing on the defunct EliteXC contracts and co-promoting with dream. They were able to throw together some terrific matchups but lacked any sort of depth. Frankly, Bellator and PFL have equally deficient substance to their rankings beyond a handful of standouts.

 

[mkt]

Strikforce looks very good in hindsight. But at the time it was very top heavy with little depth. Lot of the prospects really turned out to be great fighters in the end.

Bellator/PFL has more quality depth across the weight classes. Lot more to work with right now than Striforce ever had. Though Strikeforce had a few bigger name valued guys at the top.

Yeah, there were also some weight class jumps and other factors. The unmotivated Lawler who lost to Larkin in his last Strikeforce fight at MW wouldn't have been a top UFC fighter--especially at 185. But Robbie absolutely got on fire and reignited his career in the UFC at 170.

Jake Shields wouldn't have been a top MW in the UFC but he was a solid WW with mixed results in the UFC. Larkin also dropped to WW which helped him both in the UFC and later Bellator.

 

[tehMoose]

This is so bad from a known low-IQ Mousasi cultist and anti-UFC fanatic that I'll just address this hilarious part. How could MVP not be a Top 5 WW when he went 17-2 in Bellator and his only losses were to guys you mentioned? What's more, he went 1-1 with Lima and had a close SD with Storey. He was literally a Top 5 Bellator WW after he won his couple of fights there until he left--for almost 10 years.

Just stop.

Oh again this clown...Because he didn't fight any of those? 1-1 with Lima is not so good considering he was washed the second time and got robbed in the London, UK (MVP's homeland). You would know this if you actually followed Bellator but you don't. You just watch the records on sherdog...Storley controlled him entire fight, that wasn't a close fight by any means but he didn't do any damage and one judge got bored

Why do I even bother replying to you when you get owned by me always? Watch more MMA outside of UFC and then I will waste my time on you. Bye

 

[mkt]

Frankly, Bellator and PFL have equally deficient substance to their rankings beyond a handful of standouts.

Yeah, look at Usman beating the same guys they fed to Chandler 5-7 years earlier: Primus and a 40-year old Bendo. Usman looks good (and apparently roided), but it's hard to compare him to a top UFC fighter who faces a Top 5-10 LW in every match.

 

[tehMoose]

Prime Cormier also beats Nemkov consistently and prime Rumble KO's him more than 50% of the time. Don't forget Nemkov was having serious issues with Corey Hill in their first fight. I certainly think prime versions of Chuck, Machida, Rampage, Couture, Rashad, Shogun, etc. would have a chance. He's going to have to fight LHWs better than Hill/Bader/Davis (all fighters who couldn't earn a title shot in the UFC...and David/Bader were in their late 30s when they fought him) before we declare him the runner-up GOAT, lol.

Who is this Corey Hill guy you're talking about? Also he wouldn't fight any of them because they retired a long time ago.

UFC LHWs currently is trash and he would murk everyone

 

[mkt]

Oh again this clown...Because he didn't fight any of those? 1-1 with Lima is not so good considering he was washed the second time and got robbed in the London, UK (MVP's homeland). You would know this if you actually followed Bellator but you don't. You just watch the records on sherdog...Storley controlled him entire fight, that wasn't a close fight by any means but he didn't do any damage and one judge got bored

Why do I even bother replying to you when you get owned by me always? Watch more MMA outside of UFC and then I will waste my time on you. Bye

Owned by you? I repeat, Page was 17-2 in Bellator and HAS to be a Top 5 Bellator WW by any sane metric. All you have is subjective crap about "robbed" and alleged "homeland" bias. Page literally beat every other WW Bellator put in front of him for 10 years. So I'll also say "bye" and accept your weak acknowlegement that you lost and came across as an idiot with astonishingly bad excuses...again.