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Who feels this analysis applies to them?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by emax, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    Since I posted this on other threads, I figured I would post it here as well. My analysis of the Cormier hope train, a hope train really as opposed to a hype train, was this:

    I am not sure there are many who really though DC would win but rather were able to convince themselves they thought DC was going to win; it was not necessarily about being a Jone's hater but a deep seeded need to see Jone's pedestal broken from under him that has, I think, become sub conscious for many if not most MMA fans.

    I mean, again, looking at Cormier's best wins:

    Bigfoot Silva: The guy basically moves like he got stuck in quicksand. His massive size and frame alone can overwhelm other HWs but once you get past that you can crush him a al Arlovski.

    Roy Nelson: The quintessential big, fat slow HW. Mir, Werdum, Dos Santos and Miocic all totally ruined his shit and Arlovski put his lights out.

    Josh Barnett: Had already been fighting in MMA for 15 years at that point so was over the hill to say the least. Also never known for his TDD or for being able to fight at his best without performance enhancers. It took Browne literally a minute to put him away.

    Mir: Has now lost 4 in a row at HW. Is at best a low level gatekeeper in a thin division now.

    Dan Henderson: A truly over the hill LHW/MW whose sole win in his previous 4 fights was against a completely shot Shogun.

    Then add the fact that he is very much an old man in a sport where old men like Henderson and Couture are really not the norms.

    And then when it comes to body types, he had literally the worst body type a fighter going up against Jones could possibly have.

    So when you add it all up, I think that many of us, even the pro fighters who made their picks, had this sub conscious need to get behind DC as the guy to smash Jone's pedestal. I know that is how it was for me. I did try to make some kind of case that Cormier was gonna win at one point but deep down I knew his chances of winning were not much beyond a puncher's chance. I think with Jones, it has been that way since before he got the belt. I think by the time he took Vera apart it was apparent he was something genuinely special in MMA and was destined to stand out in a big way; many of us were just desperately trying to convince ourselves otherwise. After the Vera fight and seeing all these over the hill LHWs go a tit, I tried to convince myself it was all hype but really I could see from the start, if I am honest with myself, that it was only a matter of time before he took out the whole lot of them.
     
  2. Double Leg

    Double Leg Brown Belt

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    Everyone sucks in hindsight.
     
  3. 7437

    7437 Gold Belt

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    This.

    DC's wins at HW are certainly more impressive, but he poses a very serious problem for any fighter at LHW.
     
  4. jessejecmma

    jessejecmma Green Belt

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    Why is it people feel the need to make up dumb explanations for people rooting for a guy? I root for him because I like him and he's good enough to hang with anyone at HW or LHW. People are acting like Jones embarrassed him. The fact is DC fought 3 good rounds then ran outta steam. It's that simple.
     
  5. MRT

    MRT Black Belt

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    on Sherdog...so true. I can't stand revisionist fans.

    That OP talks all sorts of s**t about DC's opponents like they are scrubs, which is extremely disrespectful and dismissive.

    MMA could use less "fans" like the OP, IMHO, especially when their 'analysis' absolutely sucks, because it isn't really an analysis...it is just a line or two about the weak points of each fighter that completely ignores their accomplishments, in an attempt to discredit or marginalize the guy who beat them. It is doubly disrespectful!

    These types of posts fail hard because the OP thinks they are being smart by trying to add context, by pointing out the holes of guys' games...but when you completely ignore the positive aspects of their games, including their accomplishments, you reveal your own horrible bias by only including information that suits your purpose. That isn't 'analysis'.
     
  6. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    The point is that we were trying at least for many of us, to fool ourselves into thinking that Cormier was the favorite. I mean, I tried to convince myself of that even though in the back of my head I knew his chances of winning were never that much more than a puncher's chance.
     
  7. PolishHeadlock

    PolishHeadlock Putin Belt Platinum Member

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  8. estranged

    estranged Black Belt

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    DC was no hype
     
  9. Holic

    Holic I wrote a book!

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    I felt DC had the style to counter Jones, and I think he proved it in the second round. I think the eye poke stopped DC's momentum in the third, and turned the tide. I think every Jones fan out there is going to call me bitter and tell my to cry more and that one eyepoke doesn't matter in the long run.
     
  10. RafailNadull

    RafailNadull Brown Belt

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    I wanted DC to win because Jones is such a douche but didn't believe it because the best predictor, Vegas odds, had Jones as the solid favorite.

    A good rule for any sport you are following whatsoever: Your predictive powers are inferior to the bookmakers odds.
     
  11. jessejecmma

    jessejecmma Green Belt

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    Now you're on the other side of it. Cormier clearly had more than a punchers chance. He fought 3 close rounds with Jones then gassed. Is it so hard not to bring in personal feelings?.

    I would have never said DC was the favorite but to only give him a punchers chance is a gross underestimation
     
  12. Organic Damage

    Organic Damage Vantablack belt

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    Lol who needs time machines when you've got sherdog posters...

    DC didn't get exposed. He lost to the guy who beats everybody.
     
  13. Joker Jiujitsu

    Joker Jiujitsu Free toy in my Happy Meal

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    Sorry, logic has no place here. The fact that the first three rounds were very close, with DC winning one of them, doesn't matter. The fact is, DC was never any good, none of his wins at HW were impressive, and Jones basically beat a tomato can. :rolleyes:
     
  14. sohocanaan22

    sohocanaan22 Blue Belt

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    I'm the opposite of a Bones-hater, but I never thought Cormier had a chance. Does that count?

    I'm surprised he held up as well as he did. Much better chin than I'd anticipated.
     
  15. jessejecmma

    jessejecmma Green Belt

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    lol
     
  16. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    That means you were being realistic. And for those saying I am disrespecting DC's HW wins, which ones am I disrespecting? I mean, Mir is now 0-4 in his last 4 fights, Roy Nelson is a not very athletic guy who got chewed up and spit out by Mir, Miocic, Hunt, Werdum and Dos Santos and Barnett had been fighting for 15 years and was probably fighting for the first time in years without any PEDs. I figured these were sort of basic facts, not disses of the fighters.
     
  17. Joker Jiujitsu

    Joker Jiujitsu Free toy in my Happy Meal

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    The crazy part is, everybody is either acting like Jones didn't do anything impressive at all last night (therefore discrediting DC) or that Jones put on this masterful one-sided ass-whooping (therefore inflating his performance).

    Cormier was a legit opponent, as legit an opponent as Jones has ever faced, and besides Gustafsson there was not a more worthy contender. Daniel gave Jones three very tough rounds, and while Jon was able to take him down a couple times briefly, he didn't do a whole lot of damage with them until the championship rounds - but even then, Cormier was able to pick Jon up and throw him down in the final round, after a supposed one-sided ass-whooping for 20+ minutes.

    People are either understating or overrating Bones' performance, but it's nothing new. Jones has been hit a lot in his fights against Alexander and Daniel. A rematch against Gus or Cormier, or a fight against Rumble, could be an even tougher fight for him; or he could cruise through those fights and win decisions just like he has in his last few fights. Either way, Jones is a specimen, a great athlete, a world class fighter in just about every way, but he's got his weaknesses and it isn't like he's looked completely invincible.

    I can't wait to see him fight again either way. I just wish people would be a little less crazy about the stuff they say.
     
  18. jessejecmma

    jessejecmma Green Belt

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    Agreed. Well said
     
  19. sohocanaan22

    sohocanaan22 Blue Belt

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    It's such a galling tic when haters point fingers about dissing fighters in these debates. It's entirely the haters' fault because their chatter is so obtuse--or dumb--you have to counter with these relativistic critiques that are horrible slams outside of the immediate context.

    The fact is, DC's opposition really was not that impressive compared to JBJ's. But not in a million years does that mean the guys are scrubs or that DC doesn't deserve tons of credit.

    Haters blabber and bitch about everything from Jones' upbringing to his ability to dunk. When they finally turn to legit topics and dismiss something like his strength of opponent you CAN'T NOT point out that Nelson, Mir, Cummins, etc. were somewhat less than nuclear...compared to Matt Hamill, Anthony Pina, Brad Bernard, et al.
     

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