Who do you think are the worst presidents ever?

[Poatan Power]

It's funny how Reagan won his second election by unbelievable numbers and had the nation pulled together, he restored faith and hope in all Americans yet revisionist have fooled people that weren't even alive or in diapers into thinking he was a bad president.
Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of our generation.

Conservative policies will never be accepted by liberal institutions, history will judge that as well

This.

No offense to those who voted against him and think he's Hitler, but not only did he win his re-election overwhelmingly, but Bush Sr. did as well because of him.

Do you see Hillary having a map that looks like this due to Obama's run? (blue instead of red, of course)

These revisionist historians that derail reality for the sake of their political viewpoint is laughable. It's right up there with "thanks Obama" for everything.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

Haha, will do.


On topic, I nominate Bush Jr's administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld etc as Bush took more vacation than any other president and they were running shit while he was down on the ranch):

- Illegally invaded and occupied a foreign country (war crime).
- Lied to the UN to justify said illegal "war".
- Started up Guantanamo Bay and other detention camps which were rife with torture and abuses of the Geneva Convention.
- Came to power with the country billions of dollars in surplus. Left it trillions of dollars in debt.
- Allowed closed bid contracts to be assigned to companies like Halliburton for the reconstruction of Iraq and Katrina (I imagine Cheney is largely to blame for this), effectively allowing them to set their own price. Huge funneling of public wealth to private companies.
- Response to Katrina was abysmal and as bungled as can be.
- Gutted numerous important social services by hiding amendments in other bills and also signing in many downright Orwellian things like "No Child Left Behind", which basically ensured many children would be left behind.

I'm sure there's more to his laundry list of awful fuckery. It should also be noted all the above is just off the top of my head, based on shit I read years ago.

I had my "political awakening" during the Bush years. I was in my late teens/early twenties... and that was all the politics I could handle, really. Once the shit that administration stopped shocking me, I pretty much quit following politics.

Shit is poison.

i go with bush as well for the all the resons you listed, just the absolute worst president. i think as amoderate you ask, did they leave it better than they got it? and with bush in nearly every catagory its no.

 

[MeatheadMike]

The correct answer is James Buchanan.... the guy who allowed the South to seceded from the country. This should be something everyone should agree on regardless of political allegiances. Can't believe I actually saw somebody nominate Lincoln and FDR among the worst when are easily among the top 5 best presidents if not the 2 best.

After Buchanan, (dis)honorable mentions would go to,
Andrew Johnson
Franklin Pierce

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

Ronald Reagan was close to the top of just about every poll in there, the only category obama lead was the worst president

at one point nearly 75% of americans thought iraq did 911. a majority of americans at one point supported slavery, and jim crow, and segregation, you sure you want to use polls?

why not mention what he actually did?

he increased the debt x3, these were his deficits, because his direct policies created this. his tax cut was just not viable, his own econ cheif says as much and told him as much, which is why he had to raise taxes 11 times to try to deal with it. if obama did iran/contra btw, you would be calling for his head and calling him a traitor, you can't give reagan a pass on that.

i do think his policy in afghanistan was good, though as wilson put it they blew the end game. and i think we have to understand some of his mistakes because of the cold war at the time. but he really blew it in some ways. the poor in america, those living under poverty increased x 20. he went hardcore after unions which is what started the death of the middle class. don't forget the allowance the cia to bring crack into the cities and then throw all of the minorities into privately owned prisons as a result. i mean, in so many ways he was a terrible president.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I never advocated a position of all taxation = bad. In fact, I said the purpose of government is (in part) to determine the rate of taxation that best suits the needs of the country while minimizing the harm that befalls the economy.

There needs to be some degree of taxation that won't hurt more than the taxation helps.

Above and beyond that point where taxation is necessary for the minimum needed for a state to function, it is an economic principle that is well accepted that taxation retards growth more than it may give growth by the public goods the taxation funds.

You're again making a statement of faith with no evidence to back it up, and the bigger problem is that you're not thinking deeply enough. There's no difference between tax credits and spending, for example. Or between cutting the top income tax rate, and creating a "job creator incentive payment" based on income. Etc. What matters in terms of how policy affects growth is the overall structuring of incentives, and the most important factor there is monetary policy in most circumstances.

 

[Jack V Savage]

at one point nearly 75% of americans thought iraq did 911. a majority of americans at one point supported slavery, and jim crow, and segregation, you sure you want to use polls?

why not mention what he actually did?

he increased the debt x3, these were his deficits, because his direct policies created this. his tax cut was just not viable, his own econ cheif says as much and told him as much, which is why he had to raise taxes 11 times to try to deal with it. if obama did iran/contra btw, you would be calling for his head and calling him a traitor, you can't give reagan a pass on that.

i do think his policy in afghanistan was good, though as wilson put it they blew the end game. and i think we have to understand some of his mistakes because of the cold war at the time. but he really blew it in some ways. the poor in america, those living under poverty increased x 20. he went hardcore after unions which is what started the death of the middle class. don't forget the allowance the cia to bring crack into the cities and then throw all of the minorities into privately owned prisons as a result. i mean, in so many ways he was a terrible president.

Good piece on Obama's legacy from NY Mag:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/obamas-legacy-chait.html

As I said, it's really just ignorance or hackery keeping people from acknowledging the obvious reality at this point.

 

[RafailNadull]

You can't rank them because the criteria depend on your political position. It's also wrong to say that historical distance helps to evaluate more objectively, all that does is making us use hindsight, to judge decisions with information that wasn't available at the time.

On a separate note I can't believe there's a guy itt who actually seriously thinks women shouldn't be allowed to vote. What the actual fuck.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You can't rank them because the criteria depend on your political position. It's also wrong to say that historical distance helps to evaluate more objectively, all that does is making us use hindsight, to judge decisions with information that wasn't available at the time.

To some extent your first sentence is true, but there are many commonly shared goals (low unemployment, good value for the money in healthcare, etc.), and many disputes that are, at least on the surface, factual in nature (like global warming). And issues that might be controversial at one time become less so.

In my own short lifetime, I've seen right wingers go from thinking that Clinton was a murderer, rapist, drug dealer, and traitor who should be executed, and also a far-left socialist who was ruining the economy (and remember, he was frivolously impeached) to generally acknowledging that he was a very successful president.

On a separate note I can't believe there's a guy itt who actually seriously thinks women shouldn't be allowed to vote. What the actual fuck.

Pretty sure he's just trolling there.

 

[HOLA]

Buchanan, Harding, Pierce, Fillmore and Johnson are almost always the bottom 5 in any lists you see.

FDR, Lincoln, Teddy, Jefferson and Washington are almost always the top 5.

 

[TheBox]

Where's the love for Van Buren? Started the best gang in New York City

 

[Vhagar]

George W Bush

You voted in a guy i would not trust to frame a house, let alone run a country.

Not that he had to do anything, but still.

 

[Zankou]

It's a good compendium, but I think the reason Reagan is remembered so fondly is because the country was such complete shit in the late 1970s, looking doomed to fail into also-ran status. Everybody despaired. My parents at the time were both registered Democrats, and they both voted for Reagan.

Reagan's singular gift was to convince most of the nation that they didn't have to be losers, they didn't have to apologize, and they didn't have to back down. The country, in a nutshell, did not have to be shit, no matter what anybody told you.

FDR is very similar -- the guy was a brutal warmonger by any measure, addicted to super-dirty politics, but by playing the global power game with cynical proficiency he restored national pride and put America into the driver's seat as global hegemon. If you look at his actual politics, he was a dictatorial scumbag. But guys who take a nation that is flailing and despairing and convince it that it can go and kick everybody's ass ... people will bitterly wail about the brutal/sleazy mechanisms used, but in time the ass kicking is what tends to linger.

I mean people cry about the debt under Reagan, but that is precisely what Obama and FDR did to a vastly greater degree. Ultimately what matters is whether you win the game.

 

[RedRocket44]

As a non-american, I have to laugh at people saying Obama. The USPC polls have Obama ranked at 14th overall, so even if you're a republican, there's lots of examples of lower ranked democrats.

Buchanan, Johnson and Pierce are three of the lowest ranked presidents ever, all democrats, but that was pre 1870s, so nobody really knows squat about them execpt from history books. Bush Jr. is one of the worst in recent history.

 

[Zankou]

Bush Jr. was pretty clearly the worst in my lifetime, there can be little doubt about that.

 

[My Spot]

It's rather amusing to see people criticize W for being a war criminal while praising Obama.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Good piece on Obama's legacy from NY Mag:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/obamas-legacy-chait.html

As I said, it's really just ignorance or hackery keeping people from acknowledging the obvious reality at this point.

The article you posted is coming from the same website that features transgendered children rapping, opinion pieces on Taylor Swift's diet and a recap of the "shocking" season opener of the disgusting show Girls. It's a little difficult to take seriously when article has been printed in what appears to be a liberal celebrity gossip site.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

It's a good compendium, but I think the reason Reagan is remembered so fondly is because the country was such complete shit in the late 1970s, looking doomed to fail into also-ran status. Everybody despaired. My parents at the time were both registered Democrats, and they both voted for Reagan.

Reagan's singular gift was to convince most of the nation that they didn't have to be losers, they didn't have to apologize, and they didn't have to back down. The country, in a nutshell, did not have to be shit, no matter what anybody told you.

FDR is very similar -- the guy was a brutal warmonger by any measure, addicted to super-dirty politics, but by playing the global power game with cynical proficiency he restored national pride and put America into the driver's seat as global hegemon. If you look at his actual politics, he was a dictatorial scumbag. But guys who take a nation that is flailing and despairing and convince it that it can go and kick everybody's ass ... people will bitterly wail about the brutal/sleazy mechanisms used, but in time the ass kicking is what tends to linger.

I mean people cry about the debt under Reagan, but that is precisely what Obama and FDR did to a vastly greater degree. Ultimately what matters is whether you win the game.

please point to the policies under obama that led to those deficits. see that's the thing, we can point to reagan's policies, can you point to obama's? i am not saying reagan was wrong in what he did, just saying we can link his policies to the data.

 

[Jack V Savage]

As a non-american, I have to laugh at people saying Obama. The USPC polls have Obama ranked at 14th overall, so even if you're a republican, there's lots of examples of lower ranked democrats.

I bet that if you asked people in whatever country you're in the same (or an equivalent) question, a lot of people would pick whomever is in office right now, particularly if he or she has a lot of really significant accomplishments.

The article you posted is coming from the same website that features transgendered children rapping, opinion pieces on Taylor Swift's diet and a recap of the "shocking" season opener of the disgusting show Girls. It's a little difficult to take seriously when the story has article has been printed in what appears to be a liberal celebrity gossip site.

Er, I only read their politics stuff, and it's extremely good. But if an entertainment writer with the same publication covered a show you don't like, I guess you can safely avoid the issues. Smart take.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

It's rather amusing to see people criticize W for being a war criminal while praising Obama.

i know the reasons people think bush is a war criminal, they are clear, just water boarding alone, gitmo, abu grab ass prison, iraq, it's easy to get, but how is obama? even the drone strikes are with consent. i guess bin laden was probably illegal because pakistan didn't know. but what else?

 

[Devout Pessimist]

i know the reasons people think bush is a war criminal, they are clear, just water boarding alone, gitmo, abu grab ass prison, iraq, it's easy to get, but how is obama? even the drone strikes are with consent. i guess bin laden was probably illegal because pakistan didn't know. but what else?

Why wasn't Obama at the France Rally?