white belt thoughts on no gi

[indulf]

just in case anyone gives a rip..

ive been training in the gi for about 20mo now. i have taken some breaks due to injury (4wks for an elbow injury and ~3mo when i blew my knee out in september). i'm just getting back to the mat and though my knee isn't 100% i have noticed marked improvement now that i'm training on a regular basis again.

anyway, during the break another local gym closed and we picked up most of their members. that gym had a strong no gi program, so we now run 2 no gi classes per week. after last night i have now participated in 2 no gi classes. the instructor is a 10th planet guy so there's a lot of weird terminology that i'm being exposed to, but the positions all make sense after we go over them and drill them.

here are my impressions..

-no gi seems to be a lot rougher, at least at my gym. most of my training partners are MMA guys (we don't train striking at my gym) and that mindset definitely shows itself. they crank submissions harder and the rolls are really intense. they aren't being jerks, it's just the way it is. i'm not complaining - i just realize that the mindset is different and i need to be prepared when i show up for the no gi class.

-i'm learning many details that i haven't had to worry about in the gi. i think this will help my gi game, and i think the lessons learned in the gi help with no gi. grips are important, and without a gi there i'm learning fresh. i have no wrestling experience so this is all new to me.

-leg locks are new to me. we train straight ankle locks in the gi, but calf slicers, knee bars, and toe holds are new territory. after a recent knee injury i'm a little paranoid, but i need to learn it eventually anyway. they are powerful tools. luckily the rougher guys still go slow with the leg locks - they know from experience that they might hurt someone badly.. RNCs on the other hand, they bring it hard.

-i am much better at no gi than i thought i would be. our higher level guys still tool me, but i have been eating up guys with whom i am evenly matched in the gi. i do very well with lower level guys who can usually beat me in the gi. it's a confidence booster.

overall i like it. i still think i like training in the gi more, but no gi adds a new dimension to my game, will help me with my gi training, and offers additional opportunities for training and development.

 

[Dogstarman]

just in case anyone gives a rip..

Nope, I don't.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

I always felt that nogi, when I first started, was just about athleticism and speed.

This impression was caused by two things.

1. I was slow, lacked flexibility and was in generally terrible shape.

2. My technique sucked.

I've since come to realize that, while nogi is still faster and more transitional for me than is gi, it's an extremely technical process.

 

[indulf]

Nope, I don't.

why'd you click then!

 

[Einarr]

I always felt that nogi, when I first started, was just about athleticism and speed.

This impression was caused by two things.

1. I was slow, lacked flexibility and was in generally terrible shape.

2. My technique sucked.

I've since come to realize that, while nogi is still faster and more transitional for me than is gi, it's an extremely technical process.

I'd say your physical attributes and athleticism matter a lot more in nogi than in gi. Gi is 90% technique 10% speed/strength/size, whereas nogi is 50% technique and 50% speed/strength/size. There are small guys who I can count the number of times on one hand I've tapped in them gi and just take my backat least a couple of times in a roll, but who in nogi I destroy mainly due to my size, weight and strength which gi grips negate a great deal - and I'd consider myself more of a gi player than nogi.

 

[Gawd]

As an older practitioner, i'm having a lot of trouble with the quicker guys in no gi.

 

[2008]

I agree with the statement nogi its more speed and athleticism and taken a step further I also agree its really is 50% technique and 50% size/strength advantage for the bigger or more athletic person.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I dont agree with no gi favorign size and strenght... I do agree that no gi favors the more explosive agile guys, not the biggest though.... Big strong slooow guys can stall the fuck out of much smaller faster agile dude in the gi, no gi, they have to deal with speed... I find much easier to escape no gi when I have huge guy on top of me than with the gi...

no gi is way funner though.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I'd say your physical attributes and athleticism matter a lot more in nogi than in gi. Gi is 90% technique 10% speed/strength/size,

this is SOOOOOO not true.

Technique matter, A LOT gi and no gi... but give just 10 to physical attributes is just well, not true, unless you are rafa mendes, for us mortals I would give a 70/30 or so...

 

[jujijimmy]

I'm nearly 40, I find no gi favours younger athletic ass holes who like to crank the shit out of my neck. No gi is still fun, but I like my collar chokes.

 

[indulf]

I'm nearly 40, I find no gi favours younger athletic ass holes who like to crank the shit out of my neck. No gi is still fun, but I like my collar chokes.

lol. i'm 35, too heavy for my own good, slow, tired, and unskilled. i feel you!

 

[2008]

just in case anyone gives a rip..

ive been training in the gi for about 20mo now. i have taken some breaks due to injury (4wks for an elbow injury and ~3mo when i blew my knee out in september). i'm just getting back to the mat and though my knee isn't 100% i have noticed marked improvement now that i'm training on a regular basis again.

anyway, during the break another local gym closed and we picked up most of their members. that gym had a strong no gi program, so we now run 2 no gi classes per week. after last night i have now participated in 2 no gi classes. the instructor is a 10th planet guy so there's a lot of weird terminology that i'm being exposed to, but the positions all make sense after we go over them and drill them.

here are my impressions..

realize that the mindset is different and i need to be prepared when i show up for the no gi class-no gi seems to be a lot rougher, at least at my gym. most of my training partners are MMA guys (we don't train striking at my gym) and that mindset definitely shows itself. they crank submissions harder and the rolls are really intense. they aren't being jerks, it's just the way it is. i'm not complaining - i just.

-i'm learning many details that i haven't had to worry about in the gi. i think this will help my gi game, and i think the lessons learned in the gi help with no gi. grips are important, and without a gi there i'm learning fresh. i have no wrestling experience so this is all new to me.

-leg locks are new to me. we train straight ankle locks in the gi, but calf slicers, knee bars, and toe holds are new territory. after a recent knee injury i'm a little paranoid, but i need to learn it eventually anyway. they are powerful tools. luckily the rougher guys still go slow with the leg locks - they know from experience that they might hurt someone badly.. RNCs on the other hand, they bring it hard.

-i am much better at no gi than i thought i would be. our higher level guys still tool me, but i have been eating up guys with whom i am evenly matched in the gi. i do very well with lower level guys who can usually beat me in the gi. it's a confidence booster.

overall i like it. i still think i like training in the gi more, but no gi adds a new dimension to my game, will help me with my gi training, and offers additional opportunities for training and development.

I had more thoughts to add to this. My earlier post I wrote during my lunch break so I was short on time. At least at the lower levels blue and white belts(e.g. less experience guys) nogi favors guys who are either bigger, faster, or stronger.

You take 2 similar skilled guys in gi and they fought nogi...the guy who is physically bigger, faster, or stronger will have the advantage in nogi at the lower levels in my opinion.

From my experience nogi seems to be a bit more rougher cause the guys are usually more spazzy. But I think guys who favor the nogi training are former wrestlers and guys more into MMA aspect of grappling. The gi=too much of the TMA stereotype to them (again my opinion).

Another thing too your right about is in nogi you have to worry about and be aware of leg attacks...knee bars, heel hooks, toe holds, calf crush, etc. In gi you only really have to worry about straight ankle locks...atleast at the lower levels.

In my last open mat class I rolled with a guy from an affiliate school who was not fast, but he had size and technique behind skills and he obviously beat me but he also won against an advanced blue belt and an experienced purple belt from my school.

I don't know his belt level but he obviously had a size advantage on top of sound technique that gave him an advantage. So clearly his size was a factor even though he was using great technique.

 

[HIMBOB]

I think your style in a GI will decide how welll you cross over to nogi.

If you love your collar chokes and play alot of guard, I don't think you will cross over as well.

If you love your triangles (both kinds) and focus on top game, I think you will cross over well.

Thoughts?
(esp on the guard bit as I am a bit iffy about that)

 

[2008]

I think your style in a GI will decide how welll you cross over to nogi.

If you love your collar chokes and play alot of guard, I don't think you will cross over as well.

If you love your triangles (both kinds) and focus on top game, I think you will cross over well.

Thoughts?
(esp on the guard bit as I am a bit iffy about that)

I agree with you and I think there is some validity and truth to this theory, at least at the lower levels. Once you get to the highest levels of legit brown/black belt I don't know if this is the case anymore.

I do agree that if your more of a top player in gi, transitioning to nogi is probably smoother cause you don't need change your style and mindset that much.

I'm a smaller guy and kind of lazy so I tend be in guard more often just cause many of the guys are either more experience or bigger than me. In gi you have grips so I can look for the sweep then play top game...but in nogi you don't have that luxury of grips.

So playing a pure guard or going full guard in nogi is not really a good strategy. It almost as if you have to become dominant/be aggressive/ get top game from the get go to get the win or you have be good from the bottom by tiring the aggressor/top guy out from ever punishing you and staying away from the dangerzone. Its like you keep the fight at a scrambling mode so they don't ever get a true top position and you set your attacks from there.

 

[indulf]

funny tidbit from last night that i forgot about.

i rolled with a brand new guy. his first no gi class. 6mo ago he showed up for about a week training in the gi and disappeared.

he tried to x choke me while in my guard by gripping up on my rash guard. i was like wtf?? and sank a nasty armbar. he had no idea you couldn't use the rashguard like the gi.

 

[Alex88]

I think your style in a GI will decide how welll you cross over to nogi.If you love your collar chokes and play alot of guard, I don't think you will cross over as well.

If you love your triangles (both kinds) and focus on top game, I think you will cross over well.

Thoughts?
(esp on the guard bit as I am a bit iffy about that)

Exactly this ! My gi and no gi game are almost the same. Luckily for me i started training in nogi before gi so i always have that nogi mentality when i train in the gi , if that makes any sense. The gi for me is just a bonus. I think if you're good in the gi but lost in nogi , something is wrong in your bjj.

 

[pesadissimo]

I think your style in a GI will decide how welll you cross over to nogi.

If you love your collar chokes and play alot of guard, I don't think you will cross over as well.

If you love your triangles (both kinds) and focus on top game, I think you will cross over well.

Thoughts?
(esp on the guard bit as I am a bit iffy about that)

I think it depends on lot on the type of guard you play. I think z-guard/knee shield is more effective in no gi because there are no pants to grab onto from the top. X guard and 1LXG are probably equally effective gi or no gi. Certain guards like spider, DLR, and cross guard are obviously going to work better with the gi. I think closed guard is also easier with the gi, because it's easier to break an opponent's posture using grips.