Where popular boxers stand all time?

[Mike]

So as a casual you hear that Ali was the best ever, or Tyson, etc. However when you hang around any boxing forum you hear a lot about how Ali wasn't that great technique wise, or Tyson didn't fight very good competition etc. How good do you guys think Ali, Tyson, Mayweather etc. were all time? Particularly Tyson, was he really that great or just an overrated power puncher?

 

[ironfist05]

Technically prime Tyson was one of the best HWs we'll ever see. His era was fairly weak though and he was something of a headcase so we never really got to see him against top level talents in his relatively short lived prime. He wasn't perfect, but he was damned good and there aren't many HWs historically that I'd pick over him.

That said, I'd have Tyson in my top 100 AT.

 

[Seano]

Tyson was a phenom. I honestly don't think there has ever been a heavyweight who brought what Tyson brought to the ring. The speed, the power, the reflexes, the technical ability- no one has ever had that.

Like ironfist said though, at his very best, he didn't really fight in the strongest era of heavies. I think Spinks and Holmes were better wins than people give him credit for though. And even post Douglas Tyson was beating pretty much everyone aside from Holyfield. He was still winning titles even at a time when people considered him mentally weak. Wins over guys like Tucker are underrated too.

 

[DeJulez]

Tyson was a phenom. I honestly don't think there has ever been a heavyweight who brought what Tyson brought to the ring. The speed, the power, the reflexes, the technical ability- no one has ever had that.

Like ironfist said though, at his very best, he didn't really fight in the strongest era of heavies. I think Spinks and Holmes were better wins than people give him credit for though. And even post Douglas Tyson was beating pretty much everyone aside from Holyfield. He was still winning titles even at a time when people considered him mentally weak. Wins over guys like Tucker are underrated too.

The Spinks fight is highly underrated.
I was born in 88 but you talk to people and they just blow it off like he was some can. He wasnt at all. Im pretty sure Ali picked Spinks to win and so did a fair amount of people.

I think it was Burt Sugar or someone of that nature that said the Tyson that showed up that night wouldve beaten any boxer in history.
I dont know if thats true but its one hell of a statement for the topic we're discussing.

 

[Mike]

So who do you guys think was the best heavyweight ever and the best ever p4p? I realize these topics are probably old and not exciting to you, but as a casual I'm just curious what boxing fans think. I always here people saying Tyson is the best ever and that sounds pretty suspect to me.

 

[Seano]

So who do you guys think was the best heavyweight ever and the best ever p4p? I realize these topics are probably old and not exciting to you, but as a casual I'm just curious what boxing fans think. I always here people saying Tyson is the best ever and that sounds pretty suspect to me.

It depends on if you're basing on who you believe was the most talented or who accomplished the most. If people want to say that Tyson was the best ever in terms of ability and physical gifts, sure, an argument can be made. But in terms of accomplishment, he's not top 5. Top 10ish perhaps.

 

[Mike]

It depends on if you're basing on who you believe was the most talented or who accomplished the most. If people want to say that Tyson was the best ever in terms of ability and physical gifts, sure, an argument can be made. But in terms of accomplishment, he's not top 5. Top 10ish perhaps.

I'm more of an accomplishments guy. What are your thoughts on Evander Holyfield?

 

[Seano]

I'm more of an accomplishments guy. What are your thoughts on Evander Holyfield?

Too inconsistent to be ranked over guys like Lewis, Louis and Ali.

 

[Mike]

Too inconsistent to be ranked over guys like Lewis, Louis and Ali.

That makes sense, no shame being ranked below those guys though.

 

[LATEXXX COMMANDO]

Tyson and Ali were both great.

It's just there placement in history that I tend to disagree with, more so for Ali.

If someone were to have Ali as there greatest HW I wouldn't disagree but I have other HW's ahead of him.

You'll also hear people say Ali was a great defensive boxer, bullshit.

It's rare among knowledgeable fans, this leans more towards casuals but people will say Tyson is the greatest HW. I would disagree and I love Tyson.

Technically, he was absolutely outstanding, defensively he was a beast but I wouldn't have him as my greatest HW.

Mayweather is unbelievable. A guy to dominate the sport for as long as he did, against as many great fighters as he has, movng up in many weightclasses and consistently making it look so damn easy.

Honestly Floyd sticks out as the best amongst these 3 imo.

 

[Seano]

Tyson and Ali were both great.

It's just there placement in history that I tend to disagree with, more so for Ali.

If someone were to have Ali as there greatest HW I wouldn't disagree but I have other HW's ahead of him.

You'll also hear people say Ali was a great defensive boxer, bullshit.

It's rare among knowledgeable fans, this leans more towards casuals but people will say Tyson is the greatest HW. I would disagree and I love Tyson.

Technically, he was absolutely outstanding, defensively he was a beast but I wouldn't have him as my greatest HW.

Mayweather is unbelievable. A guy to dominate the sport for as long as he did, against as many great fighters as he has, movng up in many weightclasses and consistently making it look so damn easy.

Honestly Floyd sticks out as the best amongst these 3 imo.

What HWs would you rank over Ali?

 

[LATEXXX COMMANDO]

What HWs would you rank over Ali?

Lewis and Holmes

 

[Seano]

Lewis and Holmes

I think an argument could be made for Lewis but its one I think he'd lose. Holmes just doesn't have a deep enough resume.

My top 3 are Ali, Lewis and Louis with no particular preference of order and a lot of people would argue against 2 of those 3 choices. Ali probably deserves that top spot. There's just so many legendary scalps on his resume.

Lewis IMO, gets underrated because of his silly losses. But the guy beat every fighter he ever stepped in the ring with and fought almost every big name of his era who was willing to fight him. Plus he retired on a big win.

 

[LATEXXX COMMANDO]

I think an argument could be made for Lewis but its one I think he'd lose. Holmes just doesn't have a deep enough resume.

My top 3 are Ali, Lewis and Louis with no particular preference of order and a lot of people would argue against 2 of those 3 choices. Ali probably deserves that top spot. There's just so many legendary scalps on his resume.

Lewis IMO, gets underrated because of his silly losses. But the guy beat every fighter he ever stepped in the ring with and fought almost every big name of his era who was willing to fight him. Plus he retired on a big win.

Again if someone has Ali as there greatest HW I will not argue.

He truly was great. Legendary toughness, conditioning, IRON CHIN.

The man was the greatest at taking an ass whooping and not making it seem like he was.

 

[JayElectra]

Tyson was a phenom. I honestly don't think there has ever been a heavyweight who brought what Tyson brought to the ring. The speed, the power, the reflexes, the technical ability- no one has ever had that.

Like ironfist said though, at his very best, he didn't really fight in the strongest era of heavies. I think Spinks and Holmes were better wins than people give him credit for though. And even post Douglas Tyson was beating pretty much everyone aside from Holyfield. He was still winning titles even at a time when people considered him mentally weak. Wins over guys like Tucker are underrated too.

Tubbs and Tucker were both solid fighters. I mean, they're both clearly better than anyone other than the Klitschko brothers in the post Lewis era.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Tyson's resume is overrated by a lot of people but he still has a very good one. Ali's resume is the best out of any other hw, imo, he fought a lot of great fighters and beat most of them. I find a tough time finding a hw with a better resume than Ali, it's a littered with wins over great fight names, some of them weren't in their prime at the time but it's still extremely impressive when you read through it.

Just throwing some names out there: Frazier twice, Foreman, Liston twice, Patterson twice, Bob Foster, Shavers, Cleveland Williams, Chuvalo, Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terrell, Jerry Quarry, Norton (controversial but still), among other solid guys. That's a tremendous resume that you could put up against any hw of all time.

He also had the advantage of fighting in the golden era of hw's and doing so at a high level for a very long time, even with the 3 year layoff or whatever it was. Tyson didn't fight in a great hw era when he was in his prime and by the time he fought the likes of the Evanders and Lennox's he was already past it. The era he fought in wasn't nearly as good talent wise as Ali's and he wasn't able to hang around with the best for as long like Ali did.