Where does Overeem fit in with the kickboxing greats?

[Oregonmma]

I've been a fan of combat sports for quite a long time now. I've always been more into MMA then boxing, kickboxing, or Muay Thai. So I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on where alistair overeem fits in with kickboxing greats, or if he does at all.

"The Reem" may only have a record of 11-4 with 7 KOs but was the grand champion of the open weight 2010 K1 Tournament. Beating the likes of Tyrone spong, gokhan saki, and Peter aerts in the final. Other notable wins include another win over aerts and a KO over Badr Hari.

So where does he fit in? Top 10? Is he a legend in kickboxing at all? Thoughts?

 

[SalvadorAllende]

I dont think he is a legend or anything like that.

He was too juiced back then. Im not saying that the other guys werent on steroids (did K1 ever tested?)... but AO was almost on like Bob Sapp levels. Remember Sapp? That MOFO beaten Hoost twice with zero skills.

He got lucky Peter Aerts put the performance of his life against Schilt in the semi final and had nothing left (plus Peter was like 100 years old). Saki fought with 1 broken arm and Spong was always an undersized HW.

I honestly dont think Overeem in his prime would be nearly as dominant in the golden age of K1 HW division.

 

[Karaev fan]

He's not a legend or a 'top 10' in kickboxing history. Not for lack of talent, but simply lack of longevity in the sport to build up a consistent track record.

He was a supremely dangerous fighter for anyone he faced, but a few good wins in the span of two or so years means nothing in a sport where the greats have anywhere between 40 to 150 fights.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

#1

 

[tru3f4n]

nowhere he came in at the right time that's all.

 

[Mafanofe]

LOL no,Overeem is not even near HW kickboxing top 10 of all time...

He was just the famous story of the guy who was in the right place at the right time,the years he competed on K-1 HW tournaments(2009,2010) the HW division were pretty falling in terms of elite HW kickboxers(with most of the best kickboxers were old, Retired or dead like Aerts,JLB,Hunt,Andy Hug,Mike Bernardo,Hoost,Sefo,Ignashov,Stefan Leko,Bonjasky,Glaube Feitosa,Francisco Filho,Greco) and maaaany maaany others.

-He never faced really tough opposition aside a weak chin Hari,he defeated and old and very prime passed Aerts,(even very old he was better than most of K-1 HW´s at the time),being the second time he defeated Aerts,he was very tired because he went to war to defeat the monster Semmy Schilt,so the Steroid young guy had an easier work against the "crazy old man"...

-He defeated an broken arm Saki who is too small for him.

-Another small HW he defeated,Tyrone Spong(who gave him some problems)

-defeated Teixeira and Poturak who were medium-good kickboxers for THEIR TIME

-Edwards who were another good kickboxer for their time.

So as showed before he was just lucky on entered in the tournament and faced an very much smaller opposition than K-1 HW tournament used to be in early 2000s and years behind.

Guys who were much better ranked than Overeem in HW best kickboxers of all time(in terms of better wins,more decorated career,most significance on the sport) :


-Aerts
-Hoost
-Bonjasky
-Schilt
-Hug
-Sefo
-Hunt
-JLB
-Cro Cop
-Ignashov
-Mike Bernardo
-Leko
-Branco Cikatic
-Francisco Filho
-Greco
-Matt Skelton
-Saki
-Hari
-Glaube Feitosa
-Verhoeven
-Slowinski
-Ghita
-Samedov
-Londt
-Musashi(even with the gift decisions he received he still having a much more legit than Overeem,and he was a good fighter aside that)
-Stan the man............

believe there are more guys in this list,but i already remembered a lot of guys who would deserve to be higher ranked than Overeem in a best HW kickboxers ranking,as i said before,he was just the lucky guy,who would be an average joe in k-1 HW prime days..

Im not saying he was a bad kickboxers,because he was good,but he never faced the amount of guys who could kick his ass in their prime.

 

[Cocakillbana]

What significance did freakin Paul Slowinski have in kickboxing? Along with Londt and Musashi, is just a journeyman.

Overeem surely deserves to be above them.

 

[Oregonmma]

LOL no,Overeem is not even near HW kickboxing top 10 of all time...

He was just the famous story of the guy who was in the right place at the right time,the years he competed on K-1 HW tournaments(2009,2010) the HW division were pretty falling in terms of elite HW kickboxers(with most of the best kickboxers were old, Retired or dead like Aerts,JLB,Hunt,Andy Hug,Mike Bernardo,Hoost,Sefo,Ignashov,Stefan Leko,Bonjasky,Glaube Feitosa,Francisco Filho,Greco) and maaaany maaany others.

-He never faced really tough opposition aside a weak chin Hari,he defeated and old and very prime passed Aerts,(even very old he was better than most of K-1 HW´s at the time),being the second time he defeated Aerts,he was very tired because he went to war to defeat the monster Semmy Schilt,so the Steroid young guy had an easier work against the "crazy old man"...

-He defeated an broken arm Saki who is too small for him.

-Another small HW he defeated,Tyrone Spong(who gave him some problems)

-defeated Teixeira and Poturak who were medium-good kickboxers for THEIR TIME

-Edwards who were another good kickboxer for their time.

So as showed before he was just lucky on entered in the tournament and faced an very much smaller opposition than K-1 HW tournament used to be in early 2000s and years behind.

Guys who were much better ranked than Overeem in HW best kickboxers of all time(in terms of better wins,more decorated career,most significance on the sport) :


-Aerts
-Hoost
-Bonjasky
-Schilt
-Hug
-Sefo
-Hunt
-JLB
-Cro Cop
-Ignashov
-Mike Bernardo
-Leko
-Branco Cikatic
-Francisco Filho
-Greco
-Matt Skelton
-Saki
-Hari
-Glaube Feitosa
-Verhoeven
-Slowinski
-Ghita
-Samedov
-Londt
-Musashi(even with the gift decisions he received he still having a much more legit than Overeem,and he was a good fighter aside that)
-Stan the man............

believe there are more guys in this list,but i already remembered a lot of guys who would deserve to be higher ranked than Overeem in a best HW kickboxers ranking,as i said before,he was just the lucky guy,who would be an average joe in k-1 HW prime days..

Im not saying he was a bad kickboxers,because he was good,but he never faced the amount of guys who could kick his ass in their prime.

He viciously knocked out Hari in his 5th kickboxing fight and gave bonjasky troubles in his next fight. A few years earlier he was more known as a submission grappler. I think your underestimating the Reem. He could have taken out several of those fighters you listed in their prime.

 

[Shadess]

He viciously knocked out Hari in his 5th kickboxing fight and gave bonjasky troubles in his next fight. A few years earlier he was more known as a submission grappler. I think your underestimating the Reem. He could have taken out several of those fighters you listed in their prime.

I don't maybe agree with every name on that list of "being above the Reem" but...

"He could have taken out several of those fighters you listed in their prime" perhaps he could have but he didn't, a lot of those guys actually did do it.

He's not a legend or a 'top 10' in kickboxing history. Not for lack of talent, but simply lack of longevity in the sport to build up a consistent track record.

He was a supremely dangerous fighter for anyone he faced, but a few good wins in the span of two or so years means nothing in a sport where the greats have anywhere between 40 to 150 fights.

Basically this.

 

[Mafanofe]

What significance did freakin Paul Slowinski have in kickboxing? Along with Londt and Musashi, is just a journeyman.

Overeem surely deserves to be above them.

I have to agree with it

He viciously knocked out Hari in his 5th kickboxing fight and gave bonjasky troubles in his next fight. A few years earlier he was more known as a submission grappler. I think your underestimating the Reem. He could have taken out several of those fighters you listed in their prime.

I was not saying this listed guys would defeat Overeem( part of them in their prime yes),but it wasnt the intention of the list,but list kickboxers with more significant career than overeem,so that is why he cant be listed in top 10 and even near it

 

[AbeRudder]

His gp win was one of the weaker ones.....i'd put him alongside Mark Hunt overall.

 

[Crimson Glory]

The guy had a what? 10-4 record or something.

Sure he beat a couple good guys, went 1-1 with Badr, but he beat one of the weakest HW GP's.

If Semmy had gone on too the finals and fought Overeem, he wouldn't have won the championship, that's what I think anyway.

I wouldn't put him anywhere near the greats.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Knocking out Hari was a huge moment for him and it put him in the company of the elite, but as others have noted he doesn't have the resume to be top 10.

 

[DastardlyMass]

exactly who are the 10 ranked above him? Realistically he should be somewhere between 6-10. Outside of hoost,aerts,bonjasky,schilt, exactly who else has the accomplishments and wins above him? Overeem's career is actually very similar to someone like andy hug who reached the top of the sport even thou he didn't fight long. Even if you want to throw le banner and hug above him that still puts him at 7

 

[SuperLuigi]

Filho, Bernardo and Cro Cop have more impressive wins imo. When Reem was in his prime the best guy was Schilt, and Reem never fought him, which seriously limits how high I personally can rank him.

 

[DastardlyMass]

Filho, Bernardo and Cro Cop have more impressive wins imo. When Reem was in his prime the best guy was Schilt, and Reem never fought him, which seriously limits how high I personally can rank him.

he beat every other top fighter but schilt at the time and actually won a grand prix. People call it week but if you go and look back all the other tournaments this one is actually one of the stronger top to bottom lineups. Saki didn't go into he fight with reem with a broken arm either like people claim as alistair broke his arm not ghita. Overeem fought just as many rounds as aerts that night but somehow that gets overlooked as well

 

[Oregonmma]

he beat every other top fighter but schilt at the time and actually won a grand prix. People call it week but if you go and look back all the other tournaments this one is actually one of the stronger top to bottom lineups. Saki didn't go into he fight with reem with a broken arm either like people claim as alistair broke his arm not ghita. Overeem fought just as many rounds as aerts that night but somehow that gets overlooked as well

This all day. People have excuses for everyone he beat that night. Look at all the fighters in that GP. Ghita, Aerts, Schilt, Saki, Spong, the list goes on and alistair came out on top. Who else has the names that he has on his resume with only 11 wins?

 

[Karaev fan]

This all day. People have excuses for everyone he beat that night. Look at all the fighters in that GP. Ghita, Aerts, Schilt, Saki, Spong, the list goes on and alistair came out on top. Who else has the names that he has on his resume with only 11 wins?

Seems like you've already made up your mind mate. Why bother with the thread?

 

[Oregonmma]

Seems like you've already made up your mind mate. Why bother with the thread?

I wanted to hear opinions from those that have watched kickboxing more than mma so there is no bias. I was honestly really surprised when he won the GP. Horse meat Reem ftw.

 

[Karaev fan]

I wanted to hear opinions from those that have watched kickboxing more than mma so there is no bias. I was honestly really surprised when he won the GP. Horse meat Reem ftw.

It actually is a more impressive win than people give him credit for. Yeah, Aerts was old and tired but its the GP final so that's really to be expected. Reem fought Spong smartly despite spirited resistance. The only weird thing was Saki going in there with a broken arm, which I believe was only arranged so that Golden Glory ensured a fighter in the Finals. People diss the field because Hari wasn't in there, but it was a relatively strong year (though not so strong as the late-90's-early 2000's field).

Its not a Aerts-1999 or a Schilt-2009 caliber win, but its surely a lot more legit than a lot of other GP wins (Hunt-2001, Hoost-2002) where the eventual winner was straight up eliminated from the field at one point or Remy's weird 2008 win.