When Sanda Beat Muay Thai (Hybrid rules)

[SandaKicker]

I made this video that collects together highlights of the biggest wins for Sanda fighters against Muay Thai fighters.

British accent that probably fudges some of the pronounciations but no one else had done an English language play by play for these bouts.

Some of you will have seen these fights already.

It should be acknowledged that these bouts are hybrid rules and in some cases the Thai boxers fight with a size advantage.

Whilst the Thai boxers would likely win all of these bouts under FTR, equally the Sanda fighters would win easily under Sanda rules and could well win under MMA rules as this is an MMA forum.

To me these bouts are interesting because it shows technique wise there are alternatives that won’t get you hammered once you get to a certain level.

Technique wise there are three differences in striking technique;

1) Traditional martial arts side kicks can actually work at a high level (particularly effective in orthodox vs southpaw matches)
2) Bladed Stances - These aren’t completely unheard of in Muay Thai but are very rare.
3) Flicky roundhouse kicks can be effective to the head. Early on in MMA any kind of flicky roundhouse kick was immediately discredited as some kind of pussy shit. Nevertheless in one of these bouts Saenchai gets clipped with a flicky roundhouse kick to the head, it doesn’t KO him but it does score points and is generally a more effective strike than lobbing a huge haymaker kick up there that will be easily evaded and countered.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Technique wise there are three differences in striking technique;

1) Traditional martial arts side kicks can actually work at a high level (particularly effective in orthodox vs southpaw matches)
2) Bladed Stances - These aren’t completely unheard of in Muay Thai but are very rare.
3) Flicky roundhouse kicks can be effective to the head. Early on in MMA any kind of flicky roundhouse kick was immediately discredited as some kind of pussy shit. Nevertheless in one of these bouts Saenchai gets clipped with a flicky roundhouse kick to the head, it doesn’t KO him but it does score points and is generally a more effective strike than lobbing a huge haymaker kick up there that will be easily evaded and countered.

Southpaw fighters are more likely to make use of a bladed stance in Muay Thai because of how quickly you can bring up a side teep in response to a leg kick. It's not commonly seen in orthodox muay thai fighters however.

What typically gives the appearance of Muay Thai being superior to all the other striking arts, has more to do with the culture of Thailand and the life style that creates a man with over 200 professional fights from an early age - and the focus on simple efficiency that brings. If we're talking about non-Thai's then you're not necessarily going to be better at fighting purely for doing muay thai over other strong arts like sanda, kyokushin or kickboxing.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

With respect as a side note from fully watching your video, I have some criticism. Which is that when breaking down the fights, it seems that you conflate the results as efficiency of Sanda over Muay Thai in that instance, as opposed to the individual style of the fighter. Hongzin (spelling) was a fighter who came forward with a lot of pressure, lots of punches and making use of a reach advantage. That sort of fighter has ALWAYS been a problem for Saenchai. Larger fighters who fight him in close range as opposed to trying to use their range (Saenchai will always outwork you at distance regardless of your height) will always be a bad match up for Saenchai, regardless of whether they are practising Sanda or Muay Thai.



For an example in FTR.

 

[SandaKicker]

If we're talking about non-Thai's then you're not necessarily going to be better at fighting purely for doing muay thai over other strong arts like sanda, kyokushin or kickboxing.

I agree, early entry and training several hours a day are of a huge importance.

Whatever your background it would be absurd to think you are going to train one hour a day for two years and compete with someone who has been training 4-5 hours a day since childhood.

 

[SandisLL]

Yes, but not in all countries pro fighter career looks so lucrative and investments worth.

 

[SandaKicker]

Yes, but not in all countries pro fighter career looks so lucrative and investments worth.

The more we learn about CTE, the scarier the idea of a life as a pro fighter becomes.

 

[SandisLL]

There also income tax, costs for high quality food and private Insurance payments.
Plus not all regions have enough public like U.S and other large countries. There's big difference too.

 

[SandaKicker]

There also income tax, costs for high quality food and private Insurance payments.
Plus not all regions have enough public like U.S and other large countries. There's big difference too.

What country are you from?

 

[Deleted member 466273]

Don the Dragon Wilson beat them, Benny beat them, etc

It's a myth that they always won challenge matches, promoted by Muay Thai guys

 

[SandaKicker]

Don the Dragon Wilson beat them, Benny beat them, etc

It's a myth that they always won challenge matches, promoted by Muay Thai guys

I've not actually examined Benny the Jet's matches against Muay Thai fighters in any detail.

I think there is one famous one, where he signs up to kickboxing rules and he starts getting kneed from the plum, he retaliates by judo throwing the guy and it turns into a full scale riot.

Under some of the old school above the waist kickboxing matches with Bill Walace and some of these other guy's hip throws were legal, so I don't think they were as out of their depth against Muay thai fighters as many would believe in an MMA context but if it stays on the feet and is full scale FTR then they would get whooped.

 

[Vil7]

I've not actually examined Benny the Jet's matches against Muay Thai fighters in any detail.

I think there is one famous one, where he signs up to kickboxing rules and he starts getting kneed from the plum, he retaliates by judo throwing the guy and it turns into a full scale riot.

Under some of the old school above the waist kickboxing matches with Bill Walace and some of these other guy's hip throws were legal, so I don't think they were as out of their depth against Muay thai fighters as many would believe in an MMA context but if it stays on the feet and is full scale FTR then they would get whooped.

Not 100% sure if it's true but I read an article that said Urquidez had 2 losses over in Thailand. One that he lost a decision & 1 where he lost in the later rounds by a head kick. Even if that was the case it sounded like the matches were competitive despite him allegedly losing them. Wallace & Urquidez were both superb fighters and Bill Wallace is one of the coolest & nicest people you can ever meet (I've never met Urquidez before).

 

[SandaKicker]

Not 100% sure if it's true but I read an article that said Urquidez had 2 losses over in Thailand. One that he lost a decision & 1 where he lost in the later rounds by a head kick. Even if that was the case it sounded like the matches were competitive despite him allegedly losing them. Wallace & Urquidez were both superb fighters and Bill Wallace is one of the coolest & nicest people you can ever meet (I've never met Urquidez before).

Sounds like you would know more about that time period than me.

I agree about Wallace being a cool guy from all accounts I’ve heard. Amazing that he had the success he did with only one functional kicking leg.

I have more of a question mark about Urquidez but he obviously had some skills.

 

[Sinister]

As far as I know the bouts Urquidez won against MT stylists were not against actual Lumpinee fighters. But rather like Japanese who used MT. I dont necessarily consider that a discredit, just that over time it can be misrepresented. There are American style kickboxer of various styles who defeated high-level Lumpinee fighters.

 

[SandaKicker]

This is the most exciting imo of the American kickboxing vs Muay Thai hybrid rules fights..



Great ebb and flow to it with Roufus nearly finishing Kiatsongrit before he makes a comeback.

As this is the stand up forum I am curious about opinions on the knockdown at 3:15.

Looked like the epitome of an arm punch as he was on one leg when he started and finished throwing after his roundhouse kick.

 

[General_Speckz]

This is the most exciting imo of the American kickboxing vs Muay Thai hybrid rules fights..



Great ebb and flow to it with Roufus nearly finishing Kiatsongrit before he makes a comeback.

As this is the stand up forum I am curious about opinions on the knockdown at 3:15.

Looked like the epitome of an arm punch as he was on one leg when he started and finished throwing after his roundhouse kick.

I believe that's a superman punch!
But, instead of faking a kick and punching, he actually kicks first.

Here it is slowed down:

My idea of an arm punch is just a punch with no twist or dropping at all, so all power comes from the extension of the tricep and flexion of the shoulder and forearms / hands.

The power is coming from a few things. One, he does a 1, 2. So, there's a bit of shoulder whirl there, where his right punch pulling back gives him momentum for the follow up straight left. Two, he throws his left leg backward and hops on his right. The punch is traveling downwards and has a gravity assist from the hop and a some rotation across his x-axis (basically bending forward, kicking backward with left leg.) So he has a lot of power behind that punch when you add it all up. Just my observational opinion using spatial abilities.

 

[SandaKicker]

I believe that's a superman punch!
But, instead of faking a kick and punching, he actually kicks first.

Here it is slowed down:

My idea of an arm punch is just a punch with no twist or dropping at all, so all power comes from the extension of the tricep and flexion of the shoulder and forearms / hands.

The power is coming from a few things. One, he does a 1, 2. So, there's a bit of shoulder whirl there, where his right punch pulling back moving gives him momentum for the follow up straight left. Two, he throws his left leg backward and hops on his right. The punch is travelling downwards and has a gravity assist from the hop and a bit of rotation across his x-axis (basically bending forward, kicking backward with left leg.) Just my observational opinion using spatial abilities.

Very nice breakdown.

I couldn’t pick up on it because of the video/my browser quality.

 

[Hotora86]

I made this video that collects together highlights of the biggest wins for Sanda fighters against Muay Thai fighters.

British accent that probably fudges some of the pronounciations but no one else had done an English language play by play for these bouts.

Some of you will have seen these fights already.

It should be acknowledged that these bouts are hybrid rules and in some cases the Thai boxers fight with a size advantage.

Whilst the Thai boxers would likely win all of these bouts under FTR, equally the Sanda fighters would win easily under Sanda rules and could well win under MMA rules as this is an MMA forum.

To me these bouts are interesting because it shows technique wise there are alternatives that won’t get you hammered once you get to a certain level.

Technique wise there are three differences in striking technique;

1) Traditional martial arts side kicks can actually work at a high level (particularly effective in orthodox vs southpaw matches)
2) Bladed Stances - These aren’t completely unheard of in Muay Thai but are very rare.
3) Flicky roundhouse kicks can be effective to the head. Early on in MMA any kind of flicky roundhouse kick was immediately discredited as some kind of pussy shit. Nevertheless in one of these bouts Saenchai gets clipped with a flicky roundhouse kick to the head, it doesn’t KO him but it does score points and is generally a more effective strike than lobbing a huge haymaker kick up there that will be easily evaded and countered.

Interesting to watch.
I personally like Sanda more due to the throws and greater variety of techniques. MT guys from Thailand have the advantage of training from early childhood (as ppl have already mentioned) but anyone can win or lose on any day.

 

[NidNoi]

LOL Winners got injured than losers

 

[SandaKicker]

LOL Winners got injured than losers

Not sure what you mean.

As in the winners were more injured than the losers? As if the judges decision was incorrect?

 

[JKD sanda]

Having trained in both Sanda and Muay Thai . More Sanda than Muay Thai . I find they complement each other very well. In sparring I find myself using Sanda techniques against a someone who only trains Muay Thai effective, The same when against one who only trains Sanda . I suggest to anyone who has the opportunity to train both do so