Whats your take on dangerous techniques?

Calibur

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Yup, another dangerous technique thread.

So, I was at the All Japan Torunament in Tokyo (Chiba) Last weekend.

I dont speak good Japanese or Portugese, so I didnt hear the rules until showtime.

The usual no eyegouges, hair pulls, fishhooks, etc.

No heelhooks. Fair enough.

No leglocks and toe holds below brown belt. Brownbelt? Are you serious? In the states they might restrict it to blue and above, but brown?

No neck cranks. Okay.

No guillotines. WTF. No guillotines? Now, we could do scarfchokes and use the gi to do a choke from the front, but no Overeem style guillotines at ANY level.

Ive never heard of this before, but it really through me off.

This was an excellently run tournament and I respect the promoters, but I think people are going a little far with the sub limitations. The only wins were from Armbars, Triangles (mostly), RNCs (occassionally), and points (a lot of the time).

Okay, all of you are thinking "well, BJJ is supposed to be position before submission". Well if you are going to give it that many limitations than it becomes a game of points, and if thats the case, Im just as well off competing in Olympic style Judo.

Just venting.

Discuss.
 
Yes, I kind of agree to a certain point. The rules should be more restrictive for the white belts and less restrictive for the other belts. It's just that sometimes white belts enthusiasm will hurt them or their opponent more than their skill. I was watching two new guys rolling the other day when one guy had the other guys arm trapped under him in the weirdest unintentional armbar I had ever seen. Neither of them new what they were doing just that they wanted to win. So I had to stop them and restart from a safer position.

How did you do?
 
Calibur said:
No leglocks and toe holds below brown belt. Brownbelt? Are you serious? In the states they might restrict it to blue and above, but brown?

I think they should at least allow knee-bars and achilles holds at the lower belts.

Calibur said:
No guillotines. WTF. No guillotines? Now, we could do scarfchokes and use the gi to do a choke from the front, but no Overeem style guillotines at ANY level.

I don't actually use the guillotine very often but I don't think it should be left out.

Calibur said:
Ive never heard of this before, but it really through me off.

The only wins were from Armbars, Triangles (mostly), RNCs (occassionally), and points (a lot of the time).

This sounds typical of the tournaments that I've been to in Japan. They usually forbid the scissors takedown (kani-basami in Japanese) too.

Calibur said:

I wonder how many white belts still managed to get themselves injured?

At my club's last tournament I heard 4 white belts were injured (by that I mean had to be carried off after an armbar or whatever).

Anyway, how did you do? Hayakawa-san mentioned he saw you there (though as you know he gets mixed up easily).
 
BulldogSIX said:
Yes, I kind of agree to a certain point. The rules should be more restrictive for the white belts and less restrictive for the other belts. It's just that sometimes white belts enthusiasm will hurt them or their opponent more than their skill. I was watching two new guys rolling the other day when one guy had the other guys arm trapped under him in the weirdest unintentional armbar I had ever seen. Neither of them new what they were doing just that they wanted to win. So I had to stop them and restart from a safer position.

How did you do?

Today, I was rolling with a guy who it was his first night (he had wrestled and did a bit of judo) but we were just going and I was just kind of trying to show him the basics. Next thing I know, he is going for ankle lock. I'm like fuck this, rolled out of it then slapped him into a heelhook. After, I'm like where'd you learn that..."I watch the UFC". I don't like this...he'll be trying flying armbars tommorow.
 
LCDforMe said:
Today, I was rolling with a guy who it was his first night (he had wrestled and did a bit of judo) but we were just going and I was just kind of trying to show him the basics. Next thing I know, he is going for ankle lock. I'm like fuck this, rolled out of it then slapped him into a heelhook. After, I'm like where'd you learn that..."I watch the UFC". I don't like this...he'll be trying flying armbars tommorow.

LOL that shit is too funny noobs who think they can do something from seeing it once, when it took the actual person who threw it years to learn
 
LCDforMe said:
Today, I was rolling with a guy who it was his first night (he had wrestled and did a bit of judo) but we were just going and I was just kind of trying to show him the basics. Next thing I know, he is going for ankle lock. I'm like fuck this, rolled out of it then slapped him into a heelhook. After, I'm like where'd you learn that..."I watch the UFC". I don't like this...he'll be trying flying armbars tommorow.

I'm with you brother. You so have to watch for that kind of shit. If your instructor hasn't shown you the moved, explained it in detail, and had you practice it a couple hundred times don't freakin' try it while rolling. That shit pisses me off. Had a guy try something similar with a different move. I took his back sunk in a RNC and held it for a little while. I believe pain is the best teacher.
 
That is a really restricting tourny, but I guess you'll have that... Maybe guillotines aren't done in Judo...
 
I've seen a couple of BJJ competitions where guillotines weren't allowed because they are considered to be a neck crank by some organisations
 
Cornsloth said:
That is a really restricting tourny, but I guess you'll have that... Maybe guillotines aren't done in Judo...

Pretty sure they arent done in Judo, but this is BJJ. This is supposed to be potentially, the most complete system you can find, yet we are neglecting so many attacks.

The heelhook is the only move I think should be illegal. Everything else should just be frowned upon depending (can openerish moves, etc.)

In Texas, I won Open divisions against purples using kneebars, and I think its because other schools didnt train with them, even though my coach (a brown under Rodrigo Meideros) did.

Even training with Carlos Machado, he showed a kneebar techniques to groups including white belts.

But this guillotine thing is the first Ive heard.

I know that the kneebar and cranks are dangerous, but this isnt table tennis. We are playing a sport that (when you boil it down) comes down to making someone give up to crippling moves, or brain damage.

There should be limitations in training, but I think the training wheels gotta come off eventually. BTW, Im not some n00b. Ive got enough experience to know what is controlled, and what isnt.
 
Waxwingslain said:
I think they should at least allow knee-bars and achilles holds at the lower belts.



I don't actually use the guillotine very often but I don't think it should be left out.



This sounds typical of the tournaments that I've been to in Japan. They usually forbid the scissors takedown (kani-basami in Japanese) too.



I wonder how many white belts still managed to get themselves injured?

At my club's last tournament I heard 4 white belts were injured (by that I mean had to be carried off after an armbar or whatever).

Anyway, how did you do? Hayakawa-san mentioned he saw you there (though as you know he gets mixed up easily).


Saw Hayakawa-san. It looked like he had a cold.

I lost first round by points. The other guy just wanted it more.

I still think open divisions are easier. White belts can be strong, muscular Judo BBs/wrestling champs, pride fans, who have a lot of fear, adrenaline, and natural ability.

Blues and up are easy to me because even if they are agressive, they are still controlled and semi-predictable.

Anyway, losing was a good experience for me. How have you been?
 
If guillotine is banned, then because it applies pressure onto your neck too.
 
once rolling with a beginner, I had just come off a neck injury, so I tell him to not grab my neck while rolling. ok. to give him a chance, I start on all fours, and told him to attack. what does this fucker do? he goes straight for a guillotine. of all the things he could have done, like take the back, go for a choke or turnover, he does a fucking neck crank after I just told him to not touch my neck. fucken dumb kid. fucken white belts.

now I have a no mercy policy towards beginners. they just aren't worth the risk of injury. if some newb hotshot wants a piece of me, I give them a reason not to next time that tells them to fuck off at the same time.
 
oh and his guillotine pulled my vertebra out of place.
 
QingTian said:
oh and his guillotine pulled my vertebra out of place.

I hope ur ok, I am a white belt BUT I would not have done that, what he did 2 u I mean that is bull shit
 
Waxwingslain said:
At my club's last tournament I heard 4 white belts were injured (by that I mean had to be carried off after an armbar or whatever).

Depending on the severity of the injury, I find this a little sad.
 
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