What's your opinion about Sanda takedowns?

[Charlitos1988]

I mean from a judoka or a wrestler perspective, how the sanda takedowns are done from your perspective?

the same like when wrestlers or judokas criticise the bjj takedowns I want your point of view about Sanda.

 

[Saenchai]

Looks like Shuai Jiao to me.

 

[Sebaz]

I love the san da takedowns, but I also used to compete in san da, so I'm a bit biased.

 

[Human Bass]

They have some very nice counters to kicks.

 

[Charlitos1988]

They have some very nice counters to kicks.

yes but they also have some nice double and single leg takedowns where they remain stand I mean they don't go with the dude to the ground and don't use the knee on the ground to do it.

I think that style of singles and doubles are not taught anymore on gyms nowadays.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

How these dudes pull off these crazy throws with the gloves is a mistery to me.....

 

[Charlitos1988]

How these dudes pull off these crazy throws with the gloves is a mistery to me.....

and they do have some nice "no gi judo" throws like osotogari, tai otoshi and koshi guruma.

 

[ChainFlow]

yes but they also have some nice double and single leg takedowns where they remain stand I mean they don't go with the dude to the ground and don't use the knee on the ground to do it.

I think that style of singles and doubles are not taught anymore on gyms nowadays.

That's because they wouldn't score if they put a knee down. That style of takedown is used in wrestling, often called a snatch single. It is also the way that morote gari is traditionally done in Judo.

They are often used that way in MMA.

 

[Charlitos1988]

That's because they wouldn't score if they put a knee down. That style of takedown is used in wrestling, often called a snatch single. It is also the way that morote gari is traditionally done in Judo.

They are often used that way in MMA.

yes but most MMA guys do the double and single leg takedown with knee down, even Royce Gracie used to do that.

one of the only sucesfull fighters doing it without knee down was Brock Lesnar and he was a beast.

on wrestling most teachers taught the knee down version and on MMA also...I remember when I was on a free mma class I wanted to do the double leg with no knee and the teacher got angry because "that is not technical"; the same happened on a bjj friend class.

and about Judo they have this as Morote Gari, Kibishu Gaeshi, Kuchiki Taoshi versions but not common used because of the new rules, but even on the Beijing Olympics the way judokas use this was with knee down (like wrestling), so I really saw very very few times people doing doubles and singles with no knee down so I think this is an art almost lost :icon_cry2

 

[ChainFlow]

yes but most MMA guys do the double and single leg takedown with knee down, even Royce Gracie used to do that.

one of the only sucesfull fighters doing it without knee down was Brock Lesnar and he was a beast.

on wrestling most teachers taught the knee down version and on MMA also...I remember when I was on a free mma class I wanted to do the double leg with no knee and the teacher got angry because "that is not technical"; the same happened on a bjj friend class.

and about Judo they have this as Morote Gari, Kibishu Gaeshi, Kuchiki Taoshi versions but not common used because of the new rules, but even on the Beijing Olympics the way judokas use this was with knee down (like wrestling), so I really saw very very few times people doing doubles and singles with no knee down so I think this is an art almost lost :icon_cry2

It is mechanically less powerful than the knee down. It is much easier to counter. Its only advantage is that it is quicker to execute from an upright stance.

 

[MMAwisdom**]

yes but most MMA guys do the double and single leg takedown with knee down, even Royce Gracie used to do that.

one of the only sucesfull fighters doing it without knee down was Brock Lesnar and he was a beast.

on wrestling most teachers taught the knee down version and on MMA also...I remember when I was on a free mma class I wanted to do the double leg with no knee and the teacher got angry because "that is not technical"; the same happened on a bjj friend class.

and about Judo they have this as Morote Gari, Kibishu Gaeshi, Kuchiki Taoshi versions but not common used because of the new rules, but even on the Beijing Olympics the way judokas use this was with knee down (like wrestling), so I really saw very very few times people doing doubles and singles with no knee down so I think this is an art almost lost :icon_cry2

In wrestling, it's too hard to shoot without a knee down because your opponent crouches forward way more.

In MMA, you have to block strikes and you can't crouch forward, thus making shots without a knee down possible.

If you shoot without the knee down in wrestling, you're just asking to for a counter or just getting stuffed with an underhook or whizzer.

Koscheck, GSP and Lesnar shoot without the knee down. (Koscheck did it once, I believe against Johnson).

Sonnen sometimes shoots without the knee down.

 

[Saenchai]

In wrestling, it's too hard to shoot without a knee down because your opponent crouches forward way more.

at least someone acknowledge the wrestling stance, therefore throws don't work and which people rely on leg attacks and snap downs.

 

[ChainFlow]

Throws absolutely work against wrestling stance. Look at the Russian freestyle wrestling nationals.

 

[selfcritical]

How these dudes pull off these crazy throws with the gloves is a mistery to me.....

It's the weird gripping restrictions in Tai Chi sport competition. You have a stable of standup grapplers who already can throw with non-articulated grips to draw on, who have been working out throws under those restrictions for a long-ass time.

 

[Saenchai]

Throws absolutely work against wrestling stance. Look at the Russian freestyle wrestling nationals.

they choose to stand up.

Look @ ncaa wrestlers. low as hell, nearly crawling on their knees.

 

[MMAwisdom**]

at least someone acknowledge the wrestling stance, therefore throws don't work and which people rely on leg attacks and snap downs.

Throws rarely work in wrestling stance, but there are times when tied up where you are upright enough to throw.

Or when the ref put you in over/under.

 

[Laban]

I wrestled for 14 years and made All-American in greco and freestyle many times. I never shot with knees down. It is personal preference, and not as uncommon in wrestling as many of you seem to think. I just felt it is a safer way to do it, especially for upper weights. Trust me, you don't want to be stuck underneath a heavyweight.

Every time I teach wrestling shots, I never have people go to a knee.

 

[Speed BR]

It's the weird gripping restrictions in Tai Chi sport competition. You have a stable of standup grapplers who already can throw with non-articulated grips to draw on, who have been working out throws under those restrictions for a long-ass time.

Interesting. So, in Tai Chi or Suai Jiao , you are not allowed to grab your opponent's clothes, then?

 

[darkgojira]

As someone who did karate for many years and am now an ikkyu in judo, i want to train in sanda so badly. I have a lil theory that wrestlers should learn sanda and judoka should learn muay thai because of the clinching

 

[Dirty Holt]

The Sanshou takedowns that are effective in grappling/wrestling are just basic wrestling finishes that have been around for a thousand years. The more flashy ones I think are very risky because you are exposing your back to your opponent. Many of the finishes and throws in Sanshou, you are taught at a very young age to avoid because it is so easy to take the back when trying to finish that way.