What's Your Next Purchase? V5

[Jaxxxa]

What was actual cost? Been thinking if doing this, kind of dragging my feet to see what options came around.

Anyone who's eschewed bullpups due to the shitty triggers might want to reevaluate. I added the Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack to my Tavor and it was good. Totally reduced the pull. Then I added the Lightning Bow trigger that Geissele makes to compliment the trigger pack. The difference is amazing once both are added. Yeah, I spend the price of a decent handgun with the upgrades. It's worth it. I love this rifle. The 2nd state is 2 lbs. It's almost too light. The the trigger is adjustable to the point where you can make all the slack in the 1st stage disappear. I left some.

tl;dr: A precision trigger for an awesome bullpup rifle exists.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

What was actual cost? Been thinking if doing this, kind of dragging my feet to see what options came around.

Yeah, any complaints on the Tavor seem to be mainly the heavy trigger. I agree. Stock it kinda sucks. Manageable, but not really desirable. Thanks to supply & demand there's a few options for triggers.

Not sure what you already know, but here's what I learned. Timney came out with one that stumbled in its design. Then Geissele and the TavD hit the market. All reports were those were superior to Timney and a toss-up between the two. All of them listed in the $350 range. I didn't want to pay that, so I waited for either one to go on sale. The Geissele did. I got it for 20% off (although it was a low as 30% on BF). I loved what it did but still the first stage was longer and mushier than a good two-stage on an AR. I then read some internet dude sound convincing when he swore the additional Geissel Lightning Bow Trigger was money well spent, which I had scoffed at previously. But fuck it, everything else about the rifle is awesome so it's worth it to give it a try. It retails at almost $100 but I caught that on a similar sale. Prices should drop a little by virtue of these having been introduced this past year.

I need to pull it out the rifle and do some more comparing. I think the TavD might have a heavier 2nd stage and there's like one other difference I can't recall.

One important note. The trigger pack is as easy as pulling two pins. The trigger is major surgery. The barrel needs to come out and there's a wrench that you'll want to get, unless you happen to have something that fits the slot. I broke two cheaper tools before ordering the wrench. :icon_sad::icon_lol:

 

[ironwolf]

What's your opinion on the tavor vs a high end ar15? Tavors look to be 1500+ dollars and for that you can get into some damn nice ar15s that probably have more after market support.

What's your opinion?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

What's your opinion on the tavor vs a high end ar15? Tavors look to be 1500+ dollars and for that you can get into some damn nice ar15s that probably have more after market support.

What's your opinion?

Good question. I'm not sure I can give a fair comparison since the Tavor is a bullpup, which makes it considerably shorter than a non-SBR AR15 and I don't have any SBR's. But if you want compact without going NFA then this is a gun to check out. Up until switching out the trigger I think I'd have given the nod to the AR. With that gap closed all of the sudden it's easy for me to prefer the Tavor. But I'll need to get back out to the range with the new trigger components to evaluate.

If price is the prime consideration then AR's will certainly be more bang for the buck. I don't know that I'd worry much about after-market support. The rifle has only been in the US market a couple years and there's already two great trigger options and multiple foreend options that allow for rails, VFG's, and inline flashlights. The top rail is long so mount whatever. There's a conversion kit to go 9mm and of course you have the option for right or left-hand ejection. Israelis have been using the design for years so it's proven.

One thing that's weird is the magazine and bolt release behind the trigger. So anyone adverse to learning some new ergonomics should probably stick with AR's. It's not a light weapon, but the weight distribution is such that it feels good when shouldered.

Here's an idea of some upgrades out there. Eventually I'd like to add a light inside the handguard. I've got an Eotech Xps on mine and that seems fine. https://www.bullpuparmory.com/TAVOR_ACCESSORIES_s/1835.htm

 

[RerouteToRemain]

What's your opinion on the tavor vs a high end ar15? Tavors look to be 1500+ dollars and for that you can get into some damn nice ar15s that probably have more after market support.

What's your opinion?

You didn't ask me but my opinion would be if you find the bullpup comfortable, want a more compact weapon system and like the design/looks/layout then it is probably right for you. If you want customization, cheaper parts and potential to be better at most things other than being compact go with the AR.

I'd like to shoot a Tavor with a Geissele trigger. The stock one is not so good. The PS90 also doesn't have the best trigger and ergonomics are weird. It is pretty fun to shoot though. The F2000 was also weird, I tried it at a gun club near me and the guy said if starship troopers is your favorite movie and you think the AR is boring... This is the gun for you lol. I just wanted to try it.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

You didn't ask me but my opinion would be if you find the bullpup comfortable, want a more compact weapon system and like the design/looks/layout then it is probably right for you. If you want customization, cheaper parts and potential to be better at most things other than being compact go with the AR.

I'd like to shoot a Tavor with a Geissele trigger. The stock one is not so good. The PS90 also doesn't have the best trigger and ergonomics are weird. It is pretty fun to shoot though. The F2000 was also weird, I tried it at a gun club near me and the guy said if starship troopers is your favorite movie and you think the AR is boring... This is the gun for you lol. I just wanted to try it.

I forgot grip and stock options being strongly in favor of the AR. It's clearly far more versatile.

I've not shot a PS90 but I've got the FS2000 and the MSAR Aug clone. Both triggers on those suck, but not like the stock Tavor. I never even bothered shooting the FS2000. It seems like a novelty item. The MSAR was cool. I bought an aftermarket piece that was supposed to help the trigger but I couldn't get it to reset and even if I did it wouldn't come close to the Geissele.

I haven't fired groups with the Tavor so I can't speak to accuracy other than I was hitting stationary clay pigeon targets without trouble. Not sure the distance. Somewhere between 50-100 yards. I don't know anything about after-market match-grade barrels.

I think everyone needs at least 2-3 AR's and one Tavor. :icon_chee

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I forgot grip and stock options being strongly in favor of the AR. It's clearly far more versatile.

I've not shot a PS90 but I've got the FS2000 and the MSAR Aug clone. Both triggers on those suck, but not like the stock Tavor. I never even bothered shooting the FS2000. It seems like a novelty item. The MSAR was cool. I bought an aftermarket piece that was supposed to help the trigger but I couldn't get it to reset and even if I did it wouldn't come close to the Geissele.

I haven't fired groups with the Tavor so I can't speak to accuracy other than I was hitting stationary clay pigeon targets without trouble. Not sure the distance. Somewhere between 50-100 yards. I don't know anything about after-market match-grade barrels.

I think everyone needs at least 2-3 AR's and one Tavor. :icon_chee

So I look at this and my first thoughts are give me less of a pistol grip angle and move it back as far as possible without being clearly in the way of the mag. I also think the handguard/rail area could then be longer and have it extend just to before the muzzle device starts. The hands on top of each other ergonomics would be much better.

Also I would make the magwell be extended downward by an inch or so and throw a fat flare to it.


I think the Desert Tech MDR has a decent design. Should be interesting to see how this preforms.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The front part of the Tavor trigger guard is comfortable to grasp either by itself or in conjunction with the handguard. I think some after-market grip attachment might be in order. My hands aren't big enough to need more handguard space and tac-lights can be mounted internally. I hadn't thought about the mag-well at all.

I don't know anything about this MDR, but immediately that safety placement looks better.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

The front part of the Tavor trigger guard is comfortable to grasp either by itself or in conjunction with the handguard. I think some after-market grip attachment might be in order. My hands aren't big enough to need more handguard space and tac-lights can be mounted internally. I hadn't thought about the mag-well at all.

I don't know anything about this MDR, but immediately that safety placement looks better.

It's not really that my hands are too big for the area, I just don't like my hands so close together. I find it uncomfortable. Here is a quick google.

Just having more separation between my hands would be nice.

 

[jlagman]

Gah, I hate buying rings. After my season ended yesterday, I figured I'd finally get around to getting rid of these see through rings, as I found they were the worst of both worlds. The sight picture on the irons sucked and the scope sat so high on the gun.

I ordered some medium Leupold 1" QRWs last week from Amazon and it arrived just after my season ended, but they're too low, even on my 3-9x40, the objective touches the rail and the tube doesn't sit properly in the rings. Guess I'll sell this scope, use these rings on my .22 and use my Scout with an actual scout optic.

 

[ironwolf]

The tavor use standard ar15 mags correct??? Now you guys got my attention with those, I've been overlooking them but the pics and good reviews have my eyes open.

I also hate buying rings, I stick with badger, seekins and vortex for
My rings and bases.

 

[jlagman]

Shit, I may even sell my full length rail. I won't invest more money on a new set of rings which will give me much of the same problems as the old ones (tall mounting height and a shitty "chin weld") with few benefits. If I'm mounting a scope that high, I want a bigger objective and more magnification, so my Nikon scope will probably go too, if I find I really like the 2-7x32 scout. Not enough of an advantage, the way I see it. I'll then try to use that money for a scope for my .22 and try the medium QRWs on that rifle.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Just having more separation between my hands would be nice.

Yeah, I get what you're saying now.

I'm not one of those AR shooters with their hands all the way down the barrel, but I don't like grabbing the magwell either. Fwiw I prefer a shorter grip with the Tavor, to the point where using the front of the trigger guard seems natural. I'm chalking that up to differences in overall length and weight distribution.

The tavor use standard ar15 mags correct??? Now you guys got my attention with those, I've been overlooking them but the pics and good reviews have my eyes open.

Yes. I've slapped a decent variety in there and everything's functioned.

By the way, I was just giving the finger test to the new trigger compared to a RRA 2-stage Varmint trigger. I guessed the first stage was going to be much nicer with the RRA but it was pretty much the same. I thought the Tavor might have the lighter 2nd stage and those seemed very close as well. Even the resets are a tough call, but I might give the RRA a sliver of an edge. The noticeable difference (due to dry-firing) is there's a bit more of thud with the hammer hitting on the tavor. Not as cost-effect as the RRA, but the results are there.

Keep in mind I'm no trigger expert by any means. Just reporting what I feel when I'm pulling on both of them both simultaneously and consecutively.

 

[jlagman]

Tavors have become very popular in Canada, as they're non-restricted...for now (it takes too long to explain all the rules, suffice it to say, a restricted firearm, like most handguns and ARs, are range-only toys that you need permission to transport) and take STANAG mags. I'd own one, if they weren't so expensive. If you think they're expensive now, come to Canada where people pay a premium for a black gun that you can legally take out to the bush and shoot.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

Yeah, I get what you're saying now.

I'm not one of those AR shooters with their hands all the way down the barrel, but I don't like grabbing the magwell either. Fwiw I prefer a shorter grip with the Tavor, to the point where using the front of the trigger guard seems natural. I'm chalking that up to differences in overall length and weight distribution.




Yes. I've slapped a decent variety in there and everything's functioned.

By the way, I was just giving the finger test to the new trigger compared to a RRA 2-stage Varmint trigger. I guessed the first stage was going to be much nicer with the RRA but it was pretty much the same. I thought the Tavor might have the lighter 2nd stage and those seemed very close as well. Even the resets are a tough call, but I might give the RRA a sliver of an edge. The noticeable difference (due to dry-firing) is there's a bit more of thud with the hammer hitting on the tavor. Not as cost-effect as the RRA, but the results are there.

Keep in mind I'm no trigger expert by any means. Just reporting what I feel when I'm pulling on both of them both simultaneously and consecutively.

Yeah I don't have my arm fully extended but I would say I like the middle of my hand being about roughly 1 foot away from my trigger on my AR's.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

come to Canada where people pay a premium for a black gun that you can legally take out to the bush and shoot.

lol at you Canadians obeying gun laws.











Yeah, me too.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Yeah I don't have my arm fully extended but I would say I like the middle of my hand being about roughly 1 foot away from my trigger on my AR's.

It sounds like you've shot the Tavor so you know what works for you. This is why I love it when idiots talk about what arms should be brought to bear and which shouldn't. What should be used is whatever feels comfortable, within some capability of doing whatever job is at hand. Ignorant people think it's whatever government contractors (purchasing by the tens or hundreds of thousands) and politicians decide, because...professionals.

 

[jlagman]

It sounds like you've shot the Tavor so you know what works for you. This is why I love it when idiots talk about what arms should be brought to bear and which shouldn't. What should be used is whatever feels comfortable, within some capability of doing whatever job is at hand. Ignorant people think it's whatever government contractors (purchasing by the tens or hundreds of thousands) and politicians decide, because...professionals.

Quite a few people who are issued such things, don't care for them. Like in the way I don't care for my Beretta (sorry dude, I know you like yours) and the way it was designed and justified, usually for CYA and the lowest common denominator.

I got into an argument about magazine disconnect safeties with a coworker. She "wanted" to become a firearms instructor for the agency, so she regurgitated all the crap they force down recruits' throats during training. She asked me why I disliked magazine disconnect safeties to which I replied, "Why would I like something that makes my gun not work?"

Not to mention LE agencies' penchant for putting stupidly heavy triggers on service pistol because of some retards.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

It sounds like you've shot the Tavor so you know what works for you. This is why I love it when idiots talk about what arms should be brought to bear and which shouldn't. What should be used is whatever feels comfortable, within some capability of doing whatever job is at hand. Ignorant people think it's whatever government contractors (purchasing by the tens or hundreds of thousands) and politicians decide, because...professionals.

Yeah shoot whatever way is comfortable. Roughly 1 foot feels very natural for my left arm and the angle my elbow is at.

Yeah the Tavor I only have a Mag through. I have a bunch of mags through a PS90. I am thinking about getting that Desert Tech MDR. It is supposed to have a street price of just under $2000 with caliber conversion kits starting at $700. I've read it's supposed to have a 4lbs 2 stage trigger that is quite good.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

^^^^^^ Damn, 2k? Reviews better be spectacular for that price.