What's the Point Sparring?

[mjw1]

I think point sparring might be good for little kids and teach entry but no follow up which is bad IMO

 

[surfer dude]

2005? Strong necro.

Times change, and so do opinions. Bones was on Leno last night, and mentioned he trains TKD now. Yet, all I read is that it is bad, bad, bad.

At some point, the closed minded are going to have to come to grips with the fact that karate and TKD tech is being used successfully in the cage.

No one is suggesting they be the sole basis of a mixed martial artist stand up game. But they can add some effective "weapons to the arsenal".

Some suggest that the "flashy" stuff is bad or too dangerous to throw. Certainly the case, if you lack proficiency, and do not understand the proper situation for their use. But, like any other technique, they are highly effective when those requirements are met.

 

[Cannon_6]

2005? Strong necro.

...and he necro'd it just to drop the old "Sport vs. Street" argument on us.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Continuous sparring and partner drills are all we do. Never point sparred.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Seppuku Sam]

If you think "point sparring" is worthless, Dont you wonder why Bruce Lee based so much of his system on Fencing. Have you ever stopped and actually watched a really good "point fighter"...whether that be a karate type guy or a fencer? Those dudes close the gap REALLY FAST, yes. And have you ever noticed how they set shit up: The little fakes and thier timing?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

If you think "point sparring" is worthless, Dont you wonder why Bruce Lee based so much of his system on Fencing. Have you ever stopped and actually watched a really good "point fighter"...whether that be a karate type guy or a fencer? Those dudes close the gap REALLY FAST, yes. And have you ever noticed how they set shit up: The little fakes and thier timing?

BUT you can develop that quick in and out striking in continuous full contact sparring

Why develop that in an unrealistic setting like point sparring when you can do it in a realistic one? Cuts out the waste of time and gets down to to the good stuff

 

[Formless]

It has its uses, but I think everyone here knows that relying just on point sparring is a terrible idea. If you can get away with having non-committed strikes, it becomes a habit. I've seen people who train solely in point sparring and the hit and run strikes can even translate to hitting the bags weakly.

 

[MisterT]

The only real advantage of Point Sparring is that it serves as a great portal to real sparring.

When kids first come to our gym, we usually have them do point sparring so that they can:
- get accustomed to the footwork
- feel more comfortable being in the ring with someone
- boost their confidence
- correct them if they have bad technique (i.e. is they over extend on their punches, drop their hands, etc).

Once a person has done all of the above, then we transition them into real sparring which is much more beneficial.

 

[Frode Falch]

light sparring is great for training flow and combinations. Anderson Silva and the guys as black house does alot of sparring like that. I think its a great way to spar. Alot of Thais spar with light contact alot of times.

So yes i like slowfighting and light sparring. But it should never replace REAL sparring.

 

[the champ123]

Theres nothing wrong with point fighting in my opinion. Not everyone does martial arts to get there faces smashed in or get into mma. Basically what some people are saying is that kids should put on gloves and kill each other.

 

[NightVole]

Ideally you would do point sparing as a kid to ingrain that quickness and footwork into your system as an early age. Than transition to real sparring at 15-16 and weed the bad habits out while keeping the benefits. For an adult its counterproductive as its teaching you bad habits, better off sticking to real sparring imo.

 

[TriangleMan]

WNYguy's shitty grammatical title + People not reading = Epic fail of a thread.

 

[ghost scribble]

No, point sparring is worthless. TKD style sparring engrains bad habbits. You focus on "touching" your opponant instead of landing quality strikes.

You're not focused on just "touching" your opponent. There isn't as much power in point sparring because 1. The purpose of the competition (damage dealt isn't counted) and 2. The techniques themselves aren't meant to maximize power.

The TKD/Karate style roundhouse kick is, by design, less powerful than say the Muay Thai roundhouse.

Is it the hardest hitting form of fighting? No, but to imply that there isn't any contact and it's just "touching" is pretty ignorant.

You tend to use that stupid sideways stance to avoid getting hit which makes it impossible to throw any kind of power shots and you can't defend takedowns or legkciks properly from that stance either.

Yes, the side stance is less practical, but saying it "makes it impossible to throw any kind of power shots" is just stupid. The side stance is the perfect setup for the stepping side kick and spinning back kick, two of the hardest hitting kicks out there. Standing sideways telegraphs it, but you can't say it's not a "power shot".

It gets away fromt he whole point of real sparring which is to work on you timing, distance etc..

If anything, timing and distance are even more emphasized because speed is the primary objective, not power.

and focusing on hook kicks, front leg side kicks and front leg backfists etc.. whcih are worthless in a real situation.

Why do you say they're worthless? Because you don't use them? Or don't know how to use them? Sure, if you could only train either the jab or the lead backfist, nobody would say to pick the lead backfist. But it doesn't hurt to have another weapon in your arsenal. I don't understand why anyone would willingly limit their versatility as a fighter.

This elitist mentality that if "it's not full contact it's worthless" is getting old. There is plenty that can be learned from the "point sparring" style of TMA competition. Yeah there are bad habits that need to be dropped, but there are many things that translate over to full contact forms of fighting.

If you have no martial arts background and want to get into MMA, then I would not suggest you spend any time point sparring, but that doesn't mean that the TMA background of guys like Silva, GSP, Pettis, Machida, Barboza, etc. are worthless.

 

[sourdiesel209]

tai chi sparring is meh...

 

[higginz92]

You obviously have a shit sparring class, for myself I train and do partner work every afternoon during the week, I want to see at the end what combos work well and what don't and put what I've learnt to use. Fuck who wins or loses its sparring there is no win or lose. It's putting what you've learnt to good use in a controlled environment and learning what works and what doesn't.

 

[TornadoBonn]

never done point sparring in my life
but its true, sparring is the most important part of training
we go at 80-90% most of the time(boxing)depends on who you are sparring but never less than 50%,thats just shadow boxing tbh.
you have to remember its about style most of the time,a guy like margarito or brandon rios would get whooped in sparring if they only do point sparring.
wladimir klitschko is gonna beat you in sparring either way, 20% or 100%

 

[bowlie]

Let me start by saying I think point sparring is for the most part retarded, but I still fn love it! The guys who win always have the weakest techniques thrown like little flicks just to get in close enough to score but would never do damage. That being said, I go to point sparring class at least three times a week and I can't get enough of it. Its a fun game I've done since I was like 5 with my dad who was a black belt before I was even born and there is so little chance of injury which means you can do it your whole life for the most part. But at the same time its so frustrating and seems to have little application in real fighting! What do you all think of point sparring? Do mma guys use it in training? Is it worthless or have some good applications?

One thing I was thinking about the other day after sparring was perhaps it is "empty hand" training like most TMA for using a knife. If you had a knife in your hand or hemp with sharpened shells on your feet (as many wore from what I've learned), a point would hurt someone so badly it could not be given up. One strike would end the fight or injure your opponent so much that it was all about point sparring training, basically being an empty hands way to weapons train??

Its a training tool. Sometimes light point sparring is useful for developing technique or timing. But, its just one tool, and you need to use the whole box to develop a good fighter. You wouldnt try to fix a puncture with a hammer would you?

 

[SummerStriker]

I remember talking to a guy in a locker room in a tourny. I told him I don't do point sparring, and he said i'm missing all the fun stuff. I just said I'd probably get dq'ed for excessive contact or something.

If you like it, go for it and have fun. I don't see anything wrong with point sparring if you like it. If you train to be a real fighter, it's probably not the best option.

The weapons point sparring is probably pretty tough though. I've seen a foamed bo snap in half and it was solid wood inside. and I remember seeing some guy get hit hard with a foamed kali stick and was holding his hand in pain.

I almost lost a thumb nail to a padded stick while wearing a field hockey glove in kali sparring. Not all padded sticks are equal. The wooden ones with the foam pipe covering suck to get hit by.

 

[SummerStriker]

On to the point sparring thing:

There are several things that contribute to speed. Being FAST isn't the only aspect. There is the time it takes to to recognize an opening, the time it takes to decide what to do, and the time it takes to execute the move.

Most people only ever focus on the speed of the last part. Recognizing an opening and deciding to what to throw at it are decisions you can practice making without threat from damage and without actually executing those moves quickly.

Obviously this shouldn't make up the bulk of your training, but training by using point sparring or light contact sparring to make decisions faster or to cut out the decision making process altogether by choosing to utilize only a small set of moves or moves specifically selected each to their own place and range is worth training and will make you seem faster.

The problem with point and touch sparring, and why it isn't utilized well, is because people tend to think that if they aren't trying to cause damage that they don't need to be in a range to deal damage.

With a snap kick, I can cause a lot of pain if I am close enough that my knee is still bent and unfolding at the moment of impact. If I am sparring hard, that will be the case. The problem is that by being close enough to deal the damage, I'm close enough to be hit back. The time of the collision is usually longer in a hard hit than a soft one so again, I can be hit back.

In touch sparring, people have a tendency to reach as far as they can and to be just on the edge of what they can touch so that they can't be hit back. This is done so that they can "score" but doesn't facilitate learning to execute the technique better. This is because the instructor has given his students a false motivation for the sparring session. Winning points shouldn't be the goal of touch or point sparring. Showing correct technique and making correct and timely decisions should be. Both people can win at that by being correct, or more correct than they were last time, but it shouldn't count if the technique is executed any differently than it would be in a fight.

 

[devante]

On to the point sparring thing:

There are several things that contribute to speed. Being FAST isn't the only aspect. There is the time it takes to to recognize an opening, the time it takes to decide what to do, and the time it takes to execute the move.

Most people only ever focus on the speed of the last part. Recognizing an opening and deciding to what to throw at it are decisions you can practice making without threat from damage and without actually executing those moves quickly.

Obviously this shouldn't make up the bulk of your training, but training by using point sparring or light contact sparring to make decisions faster or to cut out the decision making process altogether by choosing to utilize only a small set of moves or moves specifically selected each to their own place and range is worth training and will make you seem faster.

The problem with point and touch sparring, and why it isn't utilized well, is because people tend to think that if they aren't trying to cause damage that they don't need to be in a range to deal damage.

With a snap kick, I can cause a lot of pain if I am close enough that my knee is still bent and unfolding at the moment of impact. If I am sparring hard, that will be the case. The problem is that by being close enough to deal the damage, I'm close enough to be hit back. The time of the collision is usually longer in a hard hit than a soft one so again, I can be hit back.

In touch sparring, people have a tendency to reach as far as they can and to be just on the edge of what they can touch so that they can't be hit back. This is done so that they can "score" but doesn't facilitate learning to execute the technique better. This is because the instructor has given his students a false motivation for the sparring session. Winning points shouldn't be the goal of touch or point sparring. Showing correct technique and making correct and timely decisions should be. Both people can win at that by being correct, or more correct than they were last time, but it shouldn't count if the technique is executed any differently than it would be in a fight.

this is a very very good post, the ability to find openings, recognize tells, mask tells and/or setup shots to maximize the speed/timing of your def/off/counters in regards to fighting is invaluable. Most guys don't DO enough of this...its a matter of using volume and physicality to mask the holes in their game in the area of timing spacing setups and defense...its valuable period. Much more valuable when trained and developed w/a purpose its even moreso.