What use is a bag?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Phlog, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. Phlog

    Phlog Dad Belt

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    We're getting either thigh pads or some punch/kick/maize bags at my K1 gym.

    I was wondering what actual use bags might have in developing our fighters.

    I use one at home for conditioning and technique home work but in a class format I'm not sure how useful they will be. Heavy thigh pads used in conjunction with Thai pads and belly shields will be very complimentary to our partnered drills, leg kicks are an area currently un capitalised upon due to our American kickboxing roots.
     
  2. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Power development? Also the next best thing other than pads and drills for technique I guess? I never actually thought about it.
     
  3. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    Some ways I've seen heavy bags used in class: it's useful to have when you are the odd man out (during partner drills), when you are warming up before class, or if you wanna practice a bit after class, or as part of circuit drills. It can also be useful as a coach if you are holding pads to watch a student practice on a bag, because you can see their technique from multiple angles (I find it can sometimes be hard to see everything when holding pads).
     
  4. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Bags provide a visual of what a student's form is like when they hit something as dense, or more so, than a human body.
     
  5. PgKarate

    PgKarate Yellow Belt

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    It gives student's an idea of what happens when you punch hard something that won't move back as much as a pad I guess. It let's you hit with your max power. I don't really know, but I like kicking the shit out of it so it's good enough for me
     
  6. 0rpheus

    0rpheus Orange Belt

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    In a group class, bags may not be that useful. I can't imagine any drill you couldn't do with a partner holding pads.

    But that's not really the use for a heavy bag. They are invaluable for solo technique work. It's not feasible to have a trainer hold pads while a student works a hundred right kicks, a hundred left kicks, two hundred knees, and fine tuning all the punches.

    So yes, any gym should have a heavy bag.

    Also, you don't really need thigh pads to train leg kicks. You can drop the arm pad down for a LIGHT kick to get used to the balance and rhythm. Train power leg kicks on the heavy bag.
     
  7. TheFinerDetails

    TheFinerDetails Orange Belt

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    I always have had the idea that you are supposed to drill on the bags. I guess it develops power and stuff too, getting used to hitting things (as well as conditions your legs/hands for actually hitting stuff).
    It gives people a training partner to drill on (in a metaphorical sense) if they're doing a solo session. I use it all the time to develop better technique. I find that you should still be focusing on what you're lacking on a bag. Stretching punches to their length, moving around it, combo's, etc. I guess it's just a stationary partner that isn't calling out what to throw.
     
  8. roventu

    roventu Brown Belt

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    for group class - the bag is not really useful (unless you have 1 per student, 2 on each side is kinda pushing it - only punch combos). but the bag is much more useful than thigh pads (cost/value). the only time i use bag is for leg conditioning, and i dont shadowbox if there's a bag present

    btw, anyone know why american kickboxing doesnt allow/emphasize leg kicks
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  9. TheFinerDetails

    TheFinerDetails Orange Belt

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    From my knowledge, it's because it the more Americanised style formed through the more traditional arts such as TKD and Karate, where the kicking rules do/did not allow for leg kicks.
    Lawrence Kenshin did a great breakdown of how the American style of kickboxing looked down at kicking someone in the legs until one of the Doufus brothers faced a good, solid MT fighter. Seeing Duke in the interview was great, seeing the old mindset of, "it takes no skill to kick someone in the leg". Awesome piece this video.
    Great watch, and great breakdown. Love Lawrence Kenshins work.

    Obviously this influence isn't as heavy in this day and age, but the ripple effects of Mcdojos can have an impact that is mostly unmeasurable.

    [YT]Lpl_7w8-jTE[/YT]

    I also personally don't like bag partner drills for classes. If the aim is to implement a style of HIIT (30 on 30 off), I'm pretty sure that people could just do that without having to hold a bag for someone else. Also, I hate holding the bag for someone. It always gets me in weird awkward positions to hold it flat, when they could just hit it without me and flow with the bag instead. I also find it ridiculous to kick a bag when someone is holding it, it annoys me when I'm kicking, AND when I'm holding :(. But each to their own. Some gyms could also invest in buying more heavy bags so that they stay stationary...
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  10. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    If you have enough bags, you can have up to two students per bag doing rounds of bag work. Do a round of just Boxing, another Kicks, combine the two and finish off each round with non-stop punches or kicks for up to a minute. You'll destroy your class, and they'll develop power and conditioning.
     
  11. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    Power development for sure. I sometimes sparr with a guy who is in his 50's now and has been punching on a heavy bag at home on a daily basis since he started training a good 30 years ago. His punches are definitely some of the hardest punches I've ever received, if not the hardest. I can definitely see a correlation between heavy bag use and power.
    Also it's a great workout / anaerobic exercise.
     
  12. roventu

    roventu Brown Belt

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    thanks, yeah i think ive watched all of kenshin's videos. im surprised i didnt connect the dots, never taken TKD so i didnt realize they dont do leg kicks either (i always thought of it as the "kicking" MA, so i just assumed they practiced all variations)
     
  13. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

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    My old trainer had group bag classes. We would pair up on a thai bag and one person would repeat a combo for a minute, then switch off. If there weren't enough bags, we'd go three to a bag and have one person hold while the other 2 took turns from different angles. Since the bag was held in place by your partner, you didn't have to worry about it swaying all over the place so you could really beat on it during your round. It was great conditioning and you didn't need a skilled partner holding pads for you to work on your technique.
     

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