What SHOULD you know by blue belt

[Goat Meal]

let me put it this way , there was a blue belt under marcus soares who competed in a tournament about 3 years ago against a purple belt from another school. the blue belt taps the purple belt with a knee bar. 3 years later the blue belt is...still a blue belt. that purple belt is now a black belt.

If that's true, it is pretty messed up.

 

[blindgod]

Yeah i just got the purple and i dont think i could pass Roy Harris blue belt test.. that thing seems extreme..

Do you mean you might not pass the technical part of the test, or the rest of it?

 

[Jiu Jitsuka]

You missed the point. I don't care whether I even get a belt. I just want to set some goals. First level is the blue belt level. So I want to set a goal that I will learn all the things a blue belt should learn not the minimum to get promoted.

When you start rolling in the club you'll quickly learn what is important. Asking for an itemized list is pretty pointless IMHO.

 

[Tony Manifold]

When you start rolling in the club you'll quickly learn what is important. Asking for an itemized list is pretty pointless IMHO.

Why don't you just say, "I don't know"? An Itemized list of what someone should know is a great way to set goals. In general, I already know what is important. But BJJ has specifics that are different then other sub grappling arts. Just get out there and roll, is a waste of a response. I am looking for BJJ specific and best case. Part of it is to get a feel for what the belts mean in technical terms.
In Judo for example, a Brown belt will be expected to know a set syllabus of techniques. If I am going for my brown belt, rather than waiting until my instructor gets around to teaching me, I can actively research those techniques. In BJJ, there isn't that agreed upon syllabus. So I am asking for the collective knowledge of the board, to come up with a "things you should know as a blue belt" list. That way I can research techniques I don't know, because I like to do that. I like to learn actively rather than passively wait until an instructor gets around to it. Also, other members who may be at the Blue Belt level can look at it and say, "hey I should probably learn that techinque". Then they can learn actively too.

 

[Calibur]

My opinion from another thread.

IMO

How to pull guard properly.
The elements of a gi throw (off-balance, load, drop)
Appropriate guard posture
How to open the closed guard
How to stand in the closed guard
How to do an armbar
How to do a triangle
How to do a RNC
How to do a kimura
How to create space when mounted
How to shrimp off of your opponent
Appropriate grips when using guard or passing guard
How to take away space when mounting

And, most importantly....

How to reset the guard.

These are moves that a lot of casual students have seen, but the mechanics are important to BJJ and are the base for everything else when grappling IMO. For example, the arm setup you use for an RNC is similar to the one used for an achilles lock.

I have never liked the idea of memorizing a bunch of moves. To me, in grappling it is more important to understand a few basic concepts. As you begin to understand these concepts a grappler can learn to develop their own game. Its all about the foundation, and that foundation isnt as complex as people make it out to be.

Thats why things like the rubber guard and X guard seem kind of unneccessary. If you have to resort to it, than you are probably missing fundamentals in your game.

 

[Gsoares2***]

Do you mean you might not pass the technical part of the test, or the rest of it?

Both - ha

I know a lot of moves.. but i use a small amount in retrospect to the amount of moves ive been taught over the years.

The amount that he is asking you remember, and demonstrate without error at one time is very large.

There are times when im sitting there and completely forget about a techinique i was taught 3 years ago.. and then one day it just pops back into my head.

If i knew all that stuff perfect to a T - i would be a black belt, not a blue.

If he is asking for general concepts then sure no problem - but that is a ton of informaiton for guys to get right without a single error.

Also as you progress through jiujitsu.. some times you change techniques to suit your abilitys. For instance i cant do a lot of the guards, and games i did when i was a new blue belt.. im tatterred with injuries, and i change the way i fight.. a lot of the stuff i do is specific to my game. So the way i do something isnt neccesarily the same way my coach does it any longer. The underlying principle is still there.. but the technique will differe slighty.. due to my bad knee, or what ever.

I think concepts and ideas are more important than exact techinique.
Heavy hips, pressure, posture, tightness.. all stuff that makes the basic stuff work no matter what.. Those are what i want to see from lower belts.. not a million techniques.

 

[Prokofievian]

Why don't you just say, "I don't know"? An Itemized list of what someone should know is a great way to set goals. In general, I already know what is important. But BJJ has specifics that are different then other sub grappling arts. Just get out there and roll, is a waste of a response. I am looking for BJJ specific and best case. Part of it is to get a feel for what the belts mean in technical terms.
In Judo for example, a Brown belt will be expected to know a set syllabus of techniques. If I am going for my brown belt, rather than waiting until my instructor gets around to teaching me, I can actively research those techniques. In BJJ, there isn't that agreed upon syllabus. So I am asking for the collective knowledge of the board, to come up with a "things you should know as a blue belt" list. That way I can research techniques I don't know, because I like to do that. I like to learn actively rather than passively wait until an instructor gets around to it. Also, other members who may be at the Blue Belt level can look at it and say, "hey I should probably learn that techinque". Then they can learn actively too.

I think what he means is that you're focusing on a destination rather than on a journey. Nothing should stop you from learning actively, especially not a comprehensive list given for what you "should be learning" at a given level. Right now, in your post, I can sense that you're focussing on what you know already, and how you can suppliment that with BJJ, rather than considering that BJJ could be something entirely different than what you've experienced(1997 BJJ aint the same thing anymore. Just look at Marcelo).

I've been down this road before and the whole setting long term goals can actually frustrate you much more than it can motivate you. Say what you will about "I aint no quitter" and your immense experience in Sub grappling, you really cant know what to expect until you actually walk the road yourself. Truly the issue of a belt, whether it's the belt itself or what it represents (I think you seek the latter) can cause a misperception of where you are, and how much you are actually improving.

I think what everyone's saying is who cares. You can have a "syllabus" and it'll probably do dick all for you. In fact it might even limit your 'active learning' by limting your own creative exploration of the art. The one thing that you cant gain from this syllabic learning of yours, is the thing that matters most, and that is perspective, which can only be gained by concentrating on your journey, rather than a destination.

 

[stu3ufc**]

mount, side mount, back escapes--- 4-5 guard sweeps

2 half guard passes-- 2 half guard sweeps

rnc, arm bar and triangle--some collar chokes-- you can escape also from these

you can do all these moves flawlessly in a grapple

about 2yrs grappling-- and u hang with other blues--thts my opinon

 

[Tony Manifold]

I know a lot of moves.. but i use a small amount in retrospect to the amount of moves ive been taught over the years.

I think most people are like that.

I am finding that I am having trouble keeping up with all the names. Used to be closed guard and open guard. Now we have X guard, Z guard, spider guard, turtle guard (like that was something new, we used it 15 years ago, just didn't call it a guard) crouching tiger guard. I have used a Z guard for years, I just didn't have name for it. It was just part of my open guard game. Add to that, the fact that there isn't as much of a consensus as to technical names such as the "spinning arm lock" mentioned above.

 

[Deleted member 10003]

I just had to beat up some blue belts to get mine. Testing is the gay.

 

[Tony Manifold]

Right now, in your post, I can sense that you're focussing on what you know already, and how you can suppliment that with BJJ, rather than considering that BJJ could be something entirely different than what you've experienced(1997 BJJ aint the same thing anymore. Just look at Marcelo).

I am really trying to do the opposite. I am looking for the differences. It would be real easy to get into the idea that I already am at X belt level and go into the gym and blame getting blown away by someone on my conditioning and the fact that I haven't rolled seriously in a couple of years. I am full expecting to get owned tonight and while some of it will be my conditioning and my timing, alot of it will be, as you say, the game has changed. I remember when a good achilles lock was a sure thing because no one knew how to defend them, these days how often do guys get caught with achilles locks?

I like to research any art I study. For me, the mental pursuit of learning the studying the finer points of a technique are very rewarding. And on numeruos occasions, the study I do out of class has proven benefecial in class. While, I tend to rely on a few proven techniques when I roll, I am a technique whore because it is interesting.

The other thing that a solid list will do is focus me in on the things I should do to get the most out of this first stage. Rather than focusing on what I do well, I can try to plug the gaps.

 

[Aethyr]

Both - ha

I know a lot of moves.. but i use a small amount in retrospect to the amount of moves ive been taught over the years.

The amount that he is asking you remember, and demonstrate without error at one time is very large.

There are times when im sitting there and completely forget about a techinique i was taught 3 years ago.. and then one day it just pops back into my head.

If i knew all that stuff perfect to a T - i would be a black belt, not a blue.

If he is asking for general concepts then sure no problem - but that is a ton of informaiton for guys to get right without a single error.

Also as you progress through jiujitsu.. some times you change techniques to suit your abilitys. For instance i cant do a lot of the guards, and games i did when i was a new blue belt.. im tatterred with injuries, and i change the way i fight.. a lot of the stuff i do is specific to my game. So the way i do something isnt neccesarily the same way my coach does it any longer. The underlying principle is still there.. but the technique will differe slighty.. due to my bad knee, or what ever.

I think concepts and ideas are more important than exact techinique.
Heavy hips, pressure, posture, tightness.. all stuff that makes the basic stuff work no matter what.. Those are what i want to see from lower belts.. not a million techniques.

I agree with you, but keep in mind that Roy Harris also likes to make sure his upper belts can be instructors. So while in practice nobody uses all those moves, an upper belt should know them and be able to articulate them for the benefit of a lower belt.

I personally, like the "textbook" method of bjj. Often my game sort of settles into a comfortable position against the guys at the school, where I only utilize a small subset of the techniques I know or have been taught. I find this to be dangerous, so the textbook method allows me to systematically re-hone and re-sharpen neglected moves.

 

[Kuark]

mount, side mount, back escapes--- 4-5 guard sweeps

2 half guard passes-- 2 half guard sweeps

rnc, arm bar and triangle--some collar chokes-- you can escape also from these

you can do all these moves flawlessly in a grapple

about 2yrs grappling-- and u hang with other blues--thts my opinon

agreed

 

[SH5]

I am totally against testing like this .. So to speak ..

I am only a 4 stripe Blue at the moment but I could pass the brown belt test which is open guard/ Turtle intensive . I could pass the test , but I am not near deserving of it .

I deserve the rank I have. Nothing more and I am sure I am not the only one like this.

I think this is the closest description to what is needed that I can find . not perfect because we are quantifying
something theoretical. Impossible task

http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/2007/02/exploring-map.html

 

[BCarr]

The blue belt is really showing the mastery of the basic and some advanced moves: your sweeps, reversals, escapes, and finishes. Start to develop "your game" as far as what you like to do and how you play it. The main word there is "mastery." Blue is when you have those moves down!
The purple is where you work on your transitions and multiple finishes. You work on your skills as an instructor and your creativity. Once you've blended all those things together, you're headed up to brown.

.....or at least I hope!

I know that was very general, but I feel you know enough to distinguish "basic" moves and know what I'm talking about.

 

[YeahBee]

http://royharris.com/articles/?sec=6&id=1024

I'd say that's a decent set of requirements. The "Rear choke" from mount, I interpret to be the Ezekiel.

Only two escapes from Kesa Gatame? or can side mount be interprated as Kesa???:icon_conf

and wtf? 150dollars to test!!!!!!!!

and by looking at those requirement I should alteast be able to test for a couple of stripes:icon_chee

 

[YeahBee]

My opinion from another thread.

How to pull guard properly.
The elements of a gi throw (off-balance, load, drop)
Appropriate guard posture
How to open the closed guard
How to stand in the closed guard
How to do an armbar
How to do a triangle
How to do a RNC
How to do a kimura
How to create space when mounted
How to shrimp off of your opponent
Appropriate grips when using guard or passing guard
How to take away space when mounting

And, most importantly....

How to reset the guard.

These are moves that a lot of casual students have seen, but the mechanics are important to BJJ and are the base for everything else when grappling IMO. For example, the arm setup you use for an RNC is similar to the one used for an achilles lock.

I have never liked the idea of memorizing a bunch of moves. To me, in grappling it is more important to understand a few basic concepts. As you begin to understand these concepts a grappler can learn to develop their own game. Its all about the foundation, and that foundation isnt as complex as people make it out to be.

Thats why things like the rubber guard and X guard seem kind of unneccessary. If you have to resort to it, than you are probably missing fundamentals in your game.

darnit I failed the first one

 

[TheHighlander]

BJJ schools are typically very performance-based. It's less "what you know" than "what you can apply".

A blue belt should:
1) Be able to defend himself and escape from all positions against white belt opponents.
2) Be able to positionally dominate most white belts of reasonable size.
3) Be able to submit most white belts.
4) Be able to hold his own against blue belts.
5) Be able to periodically submit and or positionally dominate blue belts.
6) Not have glaring holes in his game (i.e. must have some ability with both top game and guard game).

I'd like to include this, but have some reservations:
7) Be capable of training another person to blue belt level.

 

[Throatpoker]

darnit I failed the first one

fucked up, "pulling guard" is just not in a judoka's vocabulary.

 

[Tony Manifold]

I am totally against testing like this .. So to speak ..

I am only a 4 stripe Blue at the moment but I could pass the brown belt test which is open guard/ Turtle intensive . I could pass the test , but I am not near deserving of it .

I deserve the rank I have. Nothing more and I am sure I am not the only one like this.

I think this is the closest description to what is needed that I can find . not perfect because we are quantifying
something theoretical. Impossible task

http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/2007/02/exploring-map.html

Personally, I agree with this. IMO the way to get a belt should be the instructor calling up at the end of a class and saying "here is your X belt, you've earned it". But in reality, it is rarely that way. I did get a belt (in judo) handed to me one day though because I just refused to test. That was pretty cool. He said something like, "it's about time you started wearing this".


BCar, Highlander, thanks those were good posts.

BTW just finished rolling at the new place tonight and I had a great time. Not a lot of advance belts, which I expected. I didn't get to roll with any of them tonight but they looked good watching them. The guys I did roll with were pretty good and if it wasn't for my wrestling and judo background, I could have been in trouble a few times. The ability to scramble and the ability to control wrestling gives you is priceless IMO. Worked on Butterfly guard today which is not my strongest guard so it was good to start with a weakness which is one of the reasons I am so keen on doing the BJJ.