What separates narcissism from healthy ego?

[PhitePhan]

Below is criteria for an actual diagnosis of NPD:

• Grandiose sense of self-importance
• Preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, or ideal love
• Believes they are special or unique
• Requires excessive admiration
• Sense of entitlement
• Exploits others for personal gain
• Lacks empathy
• Envious of others or believes others envy them
• Arrogant or haughty behaviors/attitudes

A few posters have touched on a few of these, and in psychology NPD is in the same “cluster” of diagnoses as antisocial and borderline personality disorders. You need five or more for an official diagnosis.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

most fighters at least in boxing and very often in mma too are humble. Of course there is no shortage of meatheads but you might not even be able to coax a lot of real fighters into a fight without just jumping on them, they are usually mellow and usually humble and usually they've lost badly at some point along the line unlike 99 percent of the men you see on the street walking around barking.

Real fighters are also probably aware of the damage they might inflict on some random annoying person and don't want to take that risk I think.

 

[Batjester]

 

[whocares]

Dealt with a covert narcissist this year, and holy shit it's like watching a rabid gorilla operate when even the slightest thing deviates from their plan and threatens their self image even a little bit. They are fucking scary, deeply sick and deranged people, but if you understand their pathology then you can moderate their moods and behavior against them for long enough to get them out of your life. People can have huge egos but also self awareness. That's not what a classic narcissist is.

 

[Natural Order]

Below is criteria for an actual diagnosis of NPD:

• Grandiose sense of self-importance
• Preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, or ideal love
• Believes they are special or unique
• Requires excessive admiration
• Sense of entitlement
• Exploits others for personal gain
• Lacks empathy
• Envious of others or believes others envy them
• Arrogant or haughty behaviors/attitudes

A few posters have touched on a few of these, and in psychology NPD is in the same “cluster” of diagnoses as antisocial and borderline personality disorders. You need five or more for an official diagnosis.

Crazy…some of those are traits pushed and taught to children by modern parenting, or lack thereof.

Colour me shocked.

 

[mozfonky]

Crazy…some of those are traits pushed and taught to children by modern parenting, or lack thereof.

Colour me shocked.

That's why I say labels are horseshit. Every other person has all those qualities

 

[mozfonky]

I disagree.. and that’s the main thing I wanted to discuss

Can you be very, very competitive without being a narcissist?

I think that competitive drive comes from conditioning.. in my personal life.. I’ve experienced too many instances where I thought everything was cool.. “oh it doesn’t matter if you win.. youre in good position regardless”

Then I take the L and everything falls apart. Same reason you stay on that ass even if you’ve got a big lead

But I’m not a high achiever. Maybe narcissists take themselves so seriously that never needed to be taught that lesson..

I don't know, depends on what it is I guess.

I do know I asked my Native elder if "we were like we are today" as far as just needing to put other people down. I told him, I suspected we weren't. He said, "you're right, you're right, we'd try to outdo each other but we wouldn't pick at each other like we do today". I, for one, never felt comfortable competing, never and I had to just not deal with a lot of situations because of it. At work, in the fight world or even with relationships and family. At some point, i just felt like it was beneath me for one thing and then it just didn't feel right fighting over every little scrap of nothing.

 

[mozfonky]

Self awareness and humility. I am a confident person and I truly believe I can pretty much do whatever I want to (within reason) but outside of me saying this, I really don’t think my personality IRL reflects that.

I’m aware how it would sound if I bragged to my coworkers how I’m the best ever at my job or bragged to my teammates how I’m the best hockey player ever. My father told me once that lions don’t need to remind you they’re lions

that's changed in sport since Ali's time, at least before that, the fighters would try to be civil and softspoken even if they hated each others guts but usually they didn't hate anyone, it was just sport and sportsmanship was an ideal.

One more thing I think is interesting, I was watching a docu on Cyntoia Brown, the teen prostitute murderer. They asked her what she thought of men and she said "they always need to be admired" and I just thought, "wow, how insightful, she's right". Girl apparently had a genius IQ but it was still impressive for someone that young from that world hitting upon a very real truth. The male need for admiration really personally makes me sick and has just gotten in the way of so many things in my life. It's a problem when the need for something that's so immaterial comes before all the useful things that are needed.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

that's changed in sport since Ali's time, at least before that, the fighters would try to be civil and softspoken even if they hated each others guts but usually they didn't hate anyone, it was just sport and sportsmanship was an ideal.

One more thing I think is interesting, I was watching a docu on Cyntoia Brown, the teen prostitute murderer. They asked her what she thought of men and she said "they always need to be admired" and I just thought, "wow, how insightful, she's right". Girl apparently had a genius IQ but it was still impressive for someone that young from that world hitting upon a very real truth. The male need for admiration really personally makes me sick and has just gotten in the way of so many things in my life. It's a problem when the need for something that's so immaterial comes before all the useful things that are needed.

Women get love and admiration unconditionally, if wanted or not. Men do not. Nothing men do is unconditional. Nobody cares about men the same. There was a lesbian who dressed up as a man and wrote a book on this.

Women won’t want you if you can’t provide and most people won’t respect you or care if you’re down and out. When’s the last time someone told you that you were handsome? Women get this every single day, even if they look like shit.

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

Cause pride is very natural.

For example.. let’s take UfC fighters. These guys all have insane, insane egos. But guys like mcgregor jones etc go beyond that.

What’s the difference? Is it drugs or is it hatred? Or do they just love themselves too much?

 

[Phlog]

The difference is that a narcissist is self centered, lacks empathy and is defensive encountering criticism whilst a healthy ego is self confident, aware, empathic, adaptive and builds genuine relationships.

 

[HHJ]

A Narcissist has some metal screws in his elbow that he hits you with.

 

[johnsmithjohnson]

Cause pride is very natural.

For example.. let’s take UfC fighters. These guys all have insane, insane egos. But guys like mcgregor jones etc go beyond that.

What’s the difference? Is it drugs or is it hatred? Or do they just love themselves too much?

Pain. Whether it be mental or physical. Always pain
Narcissist have not experienced true pain so they act like assses. Doubling down, gas lighting, deflections, whataboitism haven't been punished so the person keeps doing it and gets a bigger and bigger ego.
Take the biggest narcissist and beat their ass when they act egotistical and they'll stop fast

Pain is the only answer

 

[Fedorgasm]

I knew someone would get it!

 

[ssBaldy]

Cause pride is very natural.

For example.. let’s take UfC fighters. These guys all have insane, insane egos. But guys like mcgregor jones etc go beyond that.

What’s the difference? Is it drugs or is it hatred? Or do they just love themselves too much?

Like every trait, it becomes a problem when taken to the extreme. Extreme humility is also problematic, though in a very different way.
I think drugs and booze are not the causes, but the consequences.
Also you very aptly mentioned that prize fighting is a business for people with large egos, who want to be contenders. No wonder some of the greatest champions in the sport are egomaniacs.

 

[cooks1]

Narcissists are often taken for confident successful people with healthy ego's. But there are ALWAYS tells.

Excessive need for praise, overreactions to criticism, and an inflated sense of self importance. Those are the narcissist litmus tests.

 

[mozfonky]

Women get love and admiration unconditionally, if wanted or not. Men do not. Nothing men do is unconditional. Nobody cares about men the same. There was a lesbian who dressed up as a man and wrote a book on this.

Women won’t want you if you can’t provide and most people won’t respect you or care if you’re down and out. When’s the last time someone told you that you were handsome? Women get this every single day, even if they look like shit.

women don't get it from women unconditionally, and don't let it be a beautiful woman, they'll get ganged up on by women.

Women, or I should say, normal women seek a male who can provide. Not in my family though, they just pick loser after loser and I have to deal with the whining. People gravitate to what they're familiar with, and I can't say much, how am I gonna tell my cousin, "you are picking the guys just like your drunk good for nothing father"? What good does that do? It's true, it's also a crossing of boundaries I'm not really sure is a good idea.

But, I think cyntoia brown did have a good point when she said that men need to be admired, they absolutely do and they are stubborn about it. I've made so many enemies in my martial arts life because I never had no admiration for the assholes who ran things, my take was, the important things weren't worshipping some asshole, it was the work of developing your skills, but that's not the real world. Only later did i learn that that sentiment is much bigger than that world, it's endemic.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

women don't get it from women unconditionally, and don't let it be a beautiful woman, they'll get ganged up on by women.

Women, or I should say, normal women seek a male who can provide. Not in my family though, they just pick loser after loser and I have to deal with the whining. People gravitate to what they're familiar with, and I can't say much, how am I gonna tell my cousin, "you are picking the guys just like your drunk good for nothing father"? What good does that do? It's true, it's also a crossing of boundaries I'm not really sure is a good idea.

But, I think cyntoia brown did have a good point when she said that men need to be admired, they absolutely do and they are stubborn about it. I've made so many enemies in my martial arts life because I never had no admiration for the assholes who ran things, my take was, the important things weren't worshipping some asshole, it was the work of developing your skills, but that's not the real world. Only later did i learn that that sentiment is much bigger than that world, it's endemic.

Yeah, she’s probably onto something. Didn’t want to sound like an incel there either lol, I’m happily married. Pretty sure my wife would still love me if I was poor, especially seeing how fast she signed a prenup

 

[Danespina]

Pretty interesting question.