What is your preference for personal defense ammunition?

[D1N0]

Lmfao, wow man.

 

[supernova]

I'm sorry bro let me post up the pictures of people shot

Nothing is going to sway you, but next time I see an idiot take a shotgun to the fight I will try to get some go pro of him doing jack shit with it.

Again, Soldier of Fortune, where do you live that gunfights break out on the regular? You are some fat kid in your mom's basement playing gunslinger.

Never did ANYONE say a shotty is better for self defense. A .45 has one purpose- to kill humans. But to act like a gun made to hunt an animal that is harder to kill than a human- due to denser tissue and a thick hide- to claim they 'suck' at killing is pure stupidity.

I live in upstate NY. We hunt deer with shotguns. Until recently rifles were not allowed. I've bagged 11 buck in my days as a hunter with my Winchester 12g. Never closer than 30 or so yards.


You have no evidence, make outrageous claims, then get defensive when challenged. Every argument you make has no less than 3 logical fallacies including Straw Man, True Scotsman, and Secret Knowledge.

Fact is every deer I've touched with my 12 has fallen. Where is your evidence? Your words are opinion and shit, kid.

 

[SMEAC]

Muhmahdiya, Lutafiyah, Yusifiyah, Jamia, Shula, Khadimiyah, Ghaziliyah, Khadra, Mullah Fayad

Sperwan Ghar, Najat

 

[supernova]

Muhmahdiya, Lutafiyah, Yusifiyah, Jamia, Shula, Khadimiyah, Ghaziliyah, Khadra, Mullah Fayad

Sperwan Ghar, Najat

Lol whatever. You are beyond full of shit. You aren't overseas, you haven't seen 10 people survive 12 gauges, and you aren't a hitman in the classifieds of Soldier of Fortune.


GTFO kid. No one believes your bullshit.

 

[neomage2021]

Lol whatever. You are beyond full of shit. You aren't overseas, you haven't seen 10 people survive 12 gauges, and you aren't a hitman in the classifieds of Soldier of Fortune.


GTFO kid. No one believes your bullshit.

HAHA agreed. Anyone that thinks a buckshot at "hallway distance" doesn't stand a good chance of killing someone is just plain stupid.

At something as short as "hallway distance" the spread of a shotgun blast isn't all that much. A hit in center of mass at the distance with buckshot has a high likely hood of killing someone by causing massive tissue damage, blood loss and organ damage.

 

[supernova]

Shotguns: The Best Felon Killing Home Defense Tool Ever Made | Conservative News, Views & Books

More proof that shotguns are indeed useful for home defense.




And here is proof, yes that's me with my kill in Colorado, that a shotgun kills larger than human targets:

No made up terrorist names here bro.

 

[SMEAC]

Lol whatever. You are beyond full of shit. You aren't overseas, you haven't seen 10 people survive 12 gauges, and you aren't a hitman in the classifieds of Soldier of Fortune.


GTFO kid. No one believes your bullshit.

Feel free to get an IP check stud

BTW: "Made up terrorist names", are you fucking stupid?

Those would be locations, but I guess its beyond you to expect some kid to recognize shit like that.

 

[General Sherman]

I'm not talking bird shot, I am talking even the mythical 00 buck. Its just .22's with shitty ballistics. You would be hard pressed to kill a dude at hallway distance, let alone yard distance.

This whole paragraph makes me laugh, but the bolded sentence in particular convinces me that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[SMEAC]

This whole paragraph makes me laugh, but the bolded sentence in particular convinces me that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Really, what size is 00buck, how many fps is it, how much lb/ft does each pellet have, how much power does the pellet have at 10', 20', how much drop?

Guessing that you will try and say how they are .33, but they are a ball not conical, and don't weigh much.

 

[supernova]

Feel free to get an IP check stud

BTW: "Made up terrorist names", are you fucking stupid?

Those would be locations, but I guess its beyond you to expect some kid to recognize shit like that.

Kid? lol I'm in my 30's. Like I give a fuck about some locations you read off some map.

Kyoto, Tokyo, Kanesawa, Ittetsu, Hironoma, Akiyuki, really easy to just type names of locations, bro. It doesn't mean I'm in Japan.

Yet still no proof. Go outside and take a pic, Soldier of Fortune.

Also, thanks for ignoring the evidence I posted. More proof you are full of shit. You have no counter to the argument so you dodge it completely.

This whole paragraph makes me laugh, but the bolded sentence in particular convinces me that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Lol this. 00 Buck is .33 cal, 8.4 mm. With nine in a shell its very similar to taking 9 9mm (.355 cal) bullets at once with a typically higher velocity.

 

[SMEAC]

Your article from a conservative news site, that talks about the "magical rack"?

That is a source, GTFO

Post some ballistics that show me wrong

Get Larry Vickers, Paul Howe, Pat Rogers, Travis Haley, etc to speak of the great virtues of the shotgun. You won't but go ahead and try.

BTW those are very specific locations, little hard to make up. I mean maybe you could since you are so fucking old at 30, even if you look about 20 in your pic.

 

[supernova]

Really, what size is 00buck, how many fps is it, how much lb/ft does each pellet have, how much power does the pellet have at 10', 20', how much drop?

Guessing that you will try and say how they are .33, but they are a ball not conical, and don't weigh much.

Yes. We'll believe you instead of ballistics experts or real shooters.

FMJ (full metal jacket) rounds are specifically designed not to expand, so shooting someone with one is a little like trying to stab them with a knitting needle. Most 9x19mm rounds are subsonic, so there's not that much energy behind them, either. Unless you hit the central nervous system or puncture a major artery, chances are the person you shot will survive if they get to an emergency room fairly quickly. (That's why most civilians and police departments use hollow point bullets for defensive purposes. FMJ is a military round intended to comply with the Hague Convention.)

00 Buckshot from a 12 gauge shotgun at close range is like hitting the target with nine .32 caliber, supersonic rounds all at once. Much more energy is transferred and the lead pellets flatten and deform, causing even more damage.

Ask an ER doctor to tell you stories about handgun wounds they've treated and they'll go on for hours. As them about shotgun wounds and they'll fall silent. Handgun wounds go to the ER. Shotgun wounds go to the morgue.

Educational Zone #91 - Let's Talk About Buckshot

 

[supernova]

Your article from a conservative news site, that talks about the "magical rack"?

That is a source, GTFO

Post some ballistics that show me wrong

Get Larry Vickers, Paul Howe, Pat Rogers, Travis Haley, etc to speak of the great virtues of the shotgun. You won't but go ahead and try.

BTW those are very specific locations, little hard to make up. I mean maybe you could since you are so fucking old at 30, even if you look about 20 in your pic.

I've sourced and provided evidence that says within 100 feet a shotgun is effective. You have offered nothing, bro.


Source someone saying that in a home defense situation, 00 buckshot sucks at killing or stopping.



I'll wait.

 

[SMEAC]

Ballistic expert, where is the chronometer?

BTW only subsonic 9mm is subsonic, not most subsonic

 

[supernova]

Ballistic expert, where is the chronometer?

BTW only subsonic 9mm is subsonic, not most subsonic

Dodging again? Typical fallacy, don't attack the argument-- build a separate argument and attack that. Straw Man.



4. Getting shot with a load of 00 buckshot is like getting shot 9 times with a handgun.

Not exactly.

Each 00 pellet weighed about 60 grains. No normal handgun round shoots a bullet that light in weight. A .32 ACP round has a 71 grain bullet traveling at 900 fps. That is the lightest "common" handgun bullet around. But it is only doing 900 fps.

The 00 buckshot pellets weigh 60 grains, but are doing 1,325 fps. There is no comparison between the two.

And the shotgun pellets all hit the target at around the same time. Very effective.

Source someone saying that in a home defense situation, 00 buckshot sucks at killing or stopping.



I'll wait.

Still waiting, Soldier of Fortune. Or are you CIA? Navy SEAL? Marine Recon? So Black Ops that you can't talk about it, just post fallacies on the internet all day?


Still waiting.

 

[neomage2021]

If a shotgun is so ineffective why do almost all military and police forces prefer them for close quarters combat

"the probability of hitting a man-sized target with a shotgun was superior to that of all other weapons"

The buckshot typically used in a combat shotgun spreads out to a greater or lesser degree depending on the barrel choke, and can be effective at ranges as far as 70 m (75 yards). The delivery of the large number of projectiles simultaneously makes the shotgun the most effective short range weapon commonly used

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/10-1997.pdf

 

[supernova]

If a shotgun is so ineffective why do almost all military and police forces prefer them for close quarters combat



http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/10-1997.pdf

Nice post, but he'll just Straw Man you with some bull that the government can't be trusted as ballistics experts and that as a member of the Black Ops he has seen terrorists survive .50 cal rounds to the chest.

 

[General Sherman]

Really, what size is 00buck, how many fps is it, how much lb/ft does each pellet have, how much power does the pellet have at 10', 20', how much drop?

Guessing that you will try and say how they are .33, but they are a ball not conical, and don't weigh much.

Yes, the typical 00 buckshot load is eight or nine pellets, .33 inches in diameter. I'm not sure why the ball shape bothers you, but the fact that eight pellets weighing about 55-60 grains each hits at 1000fps minimum (at distances less than 25 yards) means that in a short range defensive scenario, it's certainly an effective weapon. I'm not going to worry about pellet drop at less than 25 yards, and I'm not going to worry about using a shotgun at less than 25 yards, because that's not what a defensive shotgun is for. If you're interested in the ballistics though:

External Ballistics Continued

If you'd like some more reading about shotgun patterning:

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

The Box O' Truth #20 - Buckshot Patterns - Page 1

The Box O' Truth #42 - Precision Shooting With Buckshot - Page 1

The Box O' Truth #45 - Shotgun Chokes and Buckshot Part Two - Page 1


If you truly believe that firing an aimed shot of 00 buckshot at 20 yards or less is less effective than an aimed shot from a handgun, then I guess you are just part of a very small minority who believes the same. There's a reason why the shotgun is recommended weapon of pretty much every firearm expert for close range defense, and that reason is that it's highly effective, and easy to use.

 

[General Sherman]

BTW only subsonic 9mm is subsonic, not most subsonic

Depends on bullet weight. Most 147 grain rounds are subsonic, even if not advertised as such. Most 124 and lighter grain rounds are not subsonic.

 

[infinitywarrior]

Ballistic expert, where is the chronometer?

BTW only subsonic 9mm is subsonic, not most subsonic

Here gun noob troll, ballistics for the extremely uneducated, i pity your stupidity. BTW buckshot is close to .38 in size, those entry points certainly don't look like a .22....but you wouldn't understand that from your COD gun education

Buckshot


Slug