What is the democratic message?

[zebby23]

None of this has anything to do with any supposed Russian interference. Just like I said it wouldn't clear from the beginning.

If the Deutsche Bank allegations are the best you've got, Trump still has my vote in 2020.

But hey, don't let me interrupt your anti-Trump fanfiction.

Mueller isn't going to get Trump on anything. Would you like to know how I know this?

So you are ok with Trump having an allegiance to Russian oligarchs and Russian banks? Interesting.

Regarding your last sentence I could care less how you "think" you know something. I know your post history and it leads me to know for a fact you are wrong on just about every issue but don't let that stop you. lol

 

[Higus]

Democratic Platform for people who are actually curious

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

 

[P4p Islam]

It’s seems to be supporting criminals, babying terrorists, and pandering to the mentally ill.

Seems the right is obsessed with violence, racism, and lying to the public.

 

[luckyshot]

Note how all of the professions that you listed are public servants. These are individuals who have through their own choice decided to sell their services to the public at large. You're still not entitled to the services that they provide, the Supreme Court has even stated that the police have no obligation to protect you.

A doctor is a private citizen engaged in a private practice. You're no more entitled to the services of a doctor, then you are entitled to the services of a carpenter, or a car salesman, or a grocery store owner.

You can't honestly think this is a good argument against universal healthcare, can you?

It is a complete tautology:

The individuals in the professions you've listed are public servants because we have public fire, police, education and military services.

Surely you must see the cause and effect there?

Guess what?

If we had universal public healthcare (like the rest of the world) doctors and nurses in the public health system would be public servants, too!

This, by the way, is a MAJOR reason why cost of healthcare is much lower in those places... because doctors are paid like public servants-- well paid public servants, but public servants nonetheless-- instead of like venture capitalists. (Of course, doctors also don't have to go into a quarter of a million dollars of debt to become doctors in those places...)

And before you get into any bullshit arguments about quality:

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Regarding your last sentence I could care less how you "think" you know something. I know your post history and it leads me to know for a fact you are wrong on just about every issue but don't let that stop you. lol

Then I won't ruin the surprise for you.

 

[Jack V Savage]

So you are ok with Trump having an allegiance to Russian oligarchs and Russian banks? Interesting.

Regarding your last sentence I could care less how you "think" you know something. I know your post history and it leads me to know for a fact you are wrong on just about every issue but don't let that stop you. lol

One of the positive accomplishments of Trump is that he was once and for all killed the right-wing libertarian movement.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Guess what?

If we had universal public healthcare (like the rest of the world) doctors and nurses in the public health system would be public servants, too!

So you would be okay with turning private citizens engaged in their own private practice, into public servants by pain of law, based on nothing more than your whim that they should be?

Are you aware of the moral and ethical standards that would violate?

 

[zebby23]

One of the positive accomplishments of Trump is that he was once and for all killed the right-wing libertarian movement.

Apparently so... Geez.

 

[Higus]

I always see at as the Republicans see the glass half full (yes some things can be improved but for the most part, hard work, some education, not popping out a baby before marriage and a little luck will get you through to a decent life.)

Democrats always seem like the glass is half empty and there is a hole in it as well. That we need a HUGE system overhaul and that there will always be a high percentage of people that will never achieve the "American Dream".

I remember reading somewhere that American's in general are more optimistic than Europeans, and that there was a direct correlation between pessimism and support for social safety net programs. Kind of makes sense. If you think things might turn out badly, you'd support a system that minimizes that impact. Likewise, if you think things are going to be good, you want to take the brakes off of that train to get there faster.
As a liberal, I'd try to say that there's often a blurry line between being pessimistic and being realistic.

 

[luckyshot]

So you would be okay with turning private citizens engaged in their own private practice, into public servants by pain of law, based on nothing more than your whim that they should be?

Are you aware of the moral and ethical standards that would violate?

No one would be forced to become a public servant.

Just like now, you'd have some doctors who accept medicare and medicaid, and some who don't.

There are many different versions of UH, but certainly a doctor who elected to stay in exclusively private practice could. However, those who elected to become a part of the UH system (and have access to the large pool of patients/customers under that umbrella) would be public servants vis a vis that portion of their practice.

Why don't you think through the scenario pragmatically instead of trying to make it some philosophical struggle between ideological extremes?

 

[wonderbread]

All parties need a clear message that's attractive. I'm independent. But have to admit Republicans seem to have a better message for the masses. The American dream, freedoms, etc...

Democrats seem to always seem to be very negative: the system is rigged, racism.

Democrats need a better message. What do you think?

Same message as the Repubs. -

Elect us so we can further our agenda, cater to the folks that pay us the most...and line our pockets with green...giving the majority of the voters our table scraps in hopes that you will reelect us so we can to continue to fuck you over again.

 

[Armbars]

Same sex marriage and one toilet.

 

[Fawlty]

What.....what election did you watch?

Hillary's platform was not "much more agreeable." Sanders, when taking into consideration unfavorablility, polled much better with independents than Clinton, and he also borrowed support from libertarians, anti-establishments, a re-invigorated labor movement that ended up largely switching to the GOP, and previously disaffected leftists. That's why Sanders routed Clinton in open primary and caucus states, while Clinton cleaned up in closed primaries and in the Deep South, where hopeful political rhetoric is only ripe if you have a foot on the neck of a black person.

Clinton's platform was tasteless, cynical, tone-deaf, and rudderless, if given the keys to the presidency, would have been doomed to gridlock by virtue of the vitriol that she inspires in GOP lawmakers. And being stuck in 2016, with a gridlocked Congress and American public captivated by fearmongering over Killary would certainly be preferable to a Trump presidency, but it would offer no realistic possibility for more effective policy making imo.

Of course Clinton's platform was none of those things. She is a little tone deaf and aloof with the public when she's on the spot. Not a great public speaker, not very connected to regular people. You can't tell me that Bernie the Commie (not my words) wouldn't have been a gridlock machine. Even Obama got gridlocked out of exercising his powers and had to accept it, and he runs aisles around those two.

Her platform was, on its face, much more agreeable to voters. For one thing, she could actually make dollars-sense out of her proposals. She didn't say that we were going to pay everybody 15 bucks an hour and give them free college with no way to pay for it. A lot of more conservative (read: white male) voters preferred Bernie for his protectionism and his being a white male. Like I said, weird twists and turns with the support for those two. In the end, she won every demo on the left except 18-30, and was statistically tied with whites & the "very liberal."

Bernie pulling Independents was a populist tantrum. He's nowhere fucking NEAR the Independents as a group, ideologically. His support with them boiled down to "if you like your job, you can keep your job." He knew the right way to bullshit them about the factories coming back, just like Trump. He can kinda bite me on that one. Yet he got zero heat for that massive fucking lie, while Clinton got murdered over TPP. Explain that one lol.

 

[EZShrimpn]

Nice reminder that the democrats hate, hate, hate, hate that they have to appeal to white working class, whom they find deplorable.

 

[EZShrimpn]

One of the positive accomplishments of Trump is that he was once and for all killed the right-wing libertarian movement.

We saw it commit suicide on CSPAN.

 

[luckyshot]

Nice reminder that the democrats hate, hate, hate, hate that they have to appeal to white working class, whom they find deplorable.

Except, you know, those folks who are white working class democrats...

http://news.gallup.com/poll/160373/democrats-racially-diverse-republicans-mostly-white.aspx

 

[Seano]

Straight from their site ..

"Democrats believe that we're greater together than we are on our own—that this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot, everyone does their fair share, and everyone plays by the same rules. Our party is focused on building an economy that lifts up all Americans, not just those at the top.

That's why Democrats are working to make progress on issues like job creation, equal pay, education, health care, and clean energy."

Time for a rewrite. They don't do any of that shit anymore.

 

[nac386]

Time for a rewrite. They don't do any of that shit anymore.

Instead of re-writing it, they should just follow it.

 

[Seano]

Except, you know, those folks who are white working class democrats.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/160373/democrats-racially-diverse-republicans-mostly-white.aspx

White people are at best, ignored by the left and at worst chastised for having the nerve to be white. Maybe if they pandered to the country instead of selective groups of minorities, those numbers would change.

 

[Seano]

Instead of re-writing it, they should just follow it.

That could work too.