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What is more important from the bottom of side control...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Lovesong, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Lovesong Green Belt

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    ... maintaining the elbow on the hip or blocking the crossface?

    I was originally taught to keep the elbow on the hip and the forearm across the throat, but I think that might be a late option for when the top guy already has the crossface. If your opponent doesn't yet have the crossface is it better to block the crossface with a paw style grip (like the bottom of half guard)?

    I've rolled with a couple guys who do this and it seems effective, but then again maybe I just don't know how to capitalize?
     
  2. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If you have the underhook, it is better to block the crossface IMHO.

    Really bottom half guard and bottom side control hand positioning is virtually the same. I don't know why nobody ever points that out, but it's true.
     
  3. Slithers Green Belt

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    I agree. Never ever let someone crossface you.
     
  4. Graunie Blue Belt

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    I agree. If he has the crossface it makes it much harder to duck your head in for the underhook escape.
     
  5. STFUjiujitsu Blue Belt

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    I was taught to have one elbow in their hip and the other forearm in their armpit. That way they can't isolate that arm to attack it.
     
  6. Lovesong Green Belt

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    What if you don't have the underhook? Do you then go for the elbow on the hip? Or do you only go for elbow on the hip AFTER you are being crossfaced?

    I need to start playing around with Half guard framing and positioning when my guard gets passed because what you are saying really makes a lot of sense. I've never really questioned the throat + hip posture that my instructor teaches, but after visiting other schools and seeing them play differently, I'm starting to realize that throat + hip is probably the LATE defense to side control and that half guard positions/frames might be better until you get crossfaced.
     
  7. Lovesong Green Belt

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    What if you don't have the underhook? Do you then go for the elbow on the hip? Or do you only go for elbow on the hip AFTER you are being crossfaced?

    I need to start playing around with Half guard framing and positioning when my guard gets passed because what you are saying really makes a lot of sense. I've never really questioned the throat + hip posture that my instructor teaches, but after visiting other schools and seeing them play differently, I'm starting to realize that throat + hip is probably the LATE defense to side control and that half guard positions/frames might be better until you get crossfaced.
     
  8. lethalazn Purple Belt

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    preferably behind you, with both hooks sunk in
    Prevention/1st line of defense:
    turn towards the guy
    make sure his body isn't across from you (i.e. if his body is to your left...make sure his head stays on your left side)
    farside underhook

    last resort:
    nearside elbow on hip (or at least make sure my elbow isnt spread out from the rest of my body)
    farside forearm to his neck
     
  9. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    When blocking the guard pass, my attention is usually focused on controlling the near arm (the one going for the crossface) and securing an underhook with my other arm/blocking his underhook. Most guard pass blocks involve stopping the near arm.

    As a second best, I'll drive the near arm over me, so that one arm is under the armpit and the other is on the hip.

    I only put the arm in the throat if my opponent has passed me straight up and has secured a side control.

    Basically the same as half guard. Best is underhook and paw, second best is to drive both of his arms over you, and third best is when you have to put your arm under his throat and lift up.

    The problem with the "throat and elbow" position is that it's what you do to *escape* side control after it's fully locked. That's why they teach it -- it's your only option at that point (well, also the armspin and bridge escapes). But it's not what you actually want, ideally. Ideally you want to keep the side control from ever getting locked in the first place. This is what guard defense is made of.

    There are basically three big areas where your guard will be lost and side control is certain -- letting your opponent secure the underhook, crossface, or pull up on your near-side sleeve. Those will ruin you, and if you prevent them, your opponent can't really get side control. He will have to jump to the other side if he wants to pass. If you know Saulo's "seatbelt" posture, this is why he does it. You can't secure the pass versus the seatbelt posture, there's nothing to latch onto.
     
  10. sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    is the seatbelt the same as SBG's "straightjacket" ? (your far arm across your own body, other arm defending the crossface)
     
  11. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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  12. Lovesong Green Belt

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    Zankou, you've opened my eyes.

    Which DVD can I find Saulo's seatbelt posture on? I have both of his gi sets.
     
  13. Goat Meal Shhh Belt

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    I was taught to keep the elbow on the ground and hand or forearm on the hip, other arm on the throat or digging for the underhook.
     

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