What If The True Monsters Had Entered UFC 1

Taric said:
Excluding leg locks, everything you learned in a 1980s BJJ class you learned in a 1980s judo class.
BJJ is judo, without throws and with a Brazilian tag thrown on it.
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Ok mate
 
RDUBYA said:
The point was that nobody knew what the fuck BJJ was and had no answer for it.
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Kimura begs to differ.
markg171 said:
Let's keep in mind that UFC 1 was essentially rigged anyways.

- Royce Gracie was a complete unknown, using an unknown discipline. He had an advantage over everyone in that he knew what they could do but they didn't know what he could do.
- Royce, while not a good kickboxer, at least had been trained in it. He was one of the few guys who were mixed martial artists in the tourney. If he couldn't get the fight to the ground he at least had some experience standing up.
- Royce was allowed to use his gi. Anybody who's been trained in a gi knows that the guy can be used to set up so many different subs. It was a much bigger advantage for Royce to be able to use his gi than for the wrestlers to use their wrestling shoes for instance. Royce's gi helped him win, while the other disclinary equipment really couldn't offer such an advantage.
- The rules favoured Royce and his BJJ with their unlimited time limits. A big gigantic guy presumably is KOing his opponent fairly quick. A small short man needs all the time he can get to find a way to win. The extra time did that, it ensured that if Royce lasted long enough then he had a much better chance of pulling off a sub and winning the fight.
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Don't forget that handwraps weren't allowed either, which favored Royce and put strikers at a disadvantage.

When Rorion was asked about this, he said "in a real fight, do you have time to wrap your hands?". The first thing that came to my mind when I heard that was "in a real fight, do you have time to put on a gi?" - which Royce obviously used to his advantage.

Chris Dolman also wrote the Gracies letters begging to be included in UFC1, but they denied him.

The Gracies also had all combatants waive any liability for injury, essentially eliminating any professionals worth their salt from competing.
 
KillerIsBack V2 said:
idk, man.
Cosindering Americang footballers wear more protective gear than a rennaissance joust, he makes them all look like pussies:
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Gotdamn!! I don't think I've ever seen the biggest player on the field also being the fastest. Dude is fucking amazing....
 
What about the sambo guy who the gracies avoided? I forget his naame.
 
ShoelessRye said:
Paper-rock-scissors.

Karelin beats Tyson, Tyson beats Gracie, Gracie beats Karelin. So it would depend on the brackets.
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sorry tyson said hed have lost to gracie. that should at least give gracie the edge over tyson. id still have favored gracie over karelin n a nog vs sapp sorta way. i dont think karelin knew ground and pound that much so i think royce would have caught him in something.

the biggest threat would be some big sambo guy. since that art incorporates both striking and ground fighting.
 
This would be a true World warrior tournament but didnt branko get tooled by kerr?
 
tramendous said:
sorry tyson said hed have lost to gracie. that should at least give gracie the edge over tyson. id still have favored gracie over karelin n a nog vs sapp sorta way. i dont think karelin knew ground and pound that much so i think royce would have caught him in something.

the biggest threat would be some big sambo guy. since that art incorporates both striking and ground fighting.
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Tyson says that stuff because he's old and mellowed out and just being polite. 20 yr old Tyson would knock Gracie out before he could get him to the ground. Mike ain't chasing Gracie to the ground or jumping in his guard.
 
ShoelessRye said:
Tyson says that stuff because he's old and mellowed out and just being polite. 20 yr old Tyson would knock Gracie out before he could get him to the ground. Mike ain't chasing Gracie to the ground or jumping in his guard.
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its your word vs tyson's. i gotta go with tyson here.
 
A lot of Soviet wrestlers also trained in sambo when they were younger (Fedor's combination of judo and sambo as a youth was pretty typical both for Russian judoka and wrestlers). If Karelin had done a fair amount of sambo I don't see anyone stopping him - he'd know to avoid locks and simply overpower most of them (possible exception of judo's Douillet, who though not as strong as Karelin was in his neighborhood of size and strength). And its doubtful that Douillet would be used to no-gi, so I'd bet on Karelin.

If Karelin hadn't done sambo then I'm betting on Rickson or Douillet (huge size difference between those two - Kimura was only 40 pounds heavier than Helio, Douillet would be 80+ fit pounds heavier than Rickson), and would only be susceptible to leg locks, just as that was Kimura's only weakness against Helio. Of course, Rickson could have gone no-gi as well, which might well of shut Douillet's grappling down.

Rickson might also have kept it standing and won by strikes - I suspect neither Karelin nor Douillet had much if any striking experience). But that means Rickson; Royce would have been rag-dolled. He was more or less even grappling with a fat, out of shape Yoshida (who won Olympic gold at 173 pounds and then put on 50 pounds of fat when he came into MMA, you can see the difference between how cut he was as a judoka and his belly as an MMA fighter), and Yoshida wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds against Douillet in judo, he was far too small.
 
This tourney would fucking beat any event that UFC can put right now.
 
I think with all these big heavy athletes and monsters there wouldn't be a clear winner, a lot of them would probably get injured even if winning. Can't see either of the Gracies getting past Karelin without some injuries or being drained out. Remember that Royce had to withdraw from one of the later UFCs.

It would be a lottery where the man who could win in the quickest way and suffer the least damage would probably prevail. Or maybe some substitute guy would end up winning it.

A lot of it would depend on the draw too.

Let's say Tyson gets the kickboxer or the TKD guy in the beginning, knocks him out. Then faces a tired injured Gracie who has just submitted Karelin after 30 minutes of being ragdolled and slamed around, Tyson knocks him out too and then automatically wins because in the other bracked everyone either lost or is injured.

More realistic scenario though the Russians would make sure that their big celebrity Karelin wins it, they would send out people to Brazil to inform them what BJJ is and film it on video tapes. They would realize that it's some form of submission grappling and have Karelin work with Russian Sambo and Judo guys or maybe even boxers and kickboxers.

Trust me, if Karelin was there, he would know exactly what he's getting into.
 
I would take out the rugby player and add Manute Bol. Bol would dominate the UFC with his incredible reach of 10 feet and 5 inches.

r
 
The fact is that UFC 1 was a carefully planned commercial for BJJ. It's a great art and useful, but if you think that no one would be able to stop the Gracies back then I don't know what to tell you. All you'd need is some wrestler with decent boxing or vice versa with size advantage who would stuff the takedowns and murder Royce/Rickson standing. Then there's the sambo and judo guys and let's not forget other Brazilian vale tudo fighters who would be very well aware of what Gracies bring to the table and neutralize it.

The opponents that were picked for UFC 1 were a joke. Sumo guy, 5 strikers including that fat kickboxer and one glove Jimmerson who thought Royce was some sort of "karate guy" and didn't even expect grappling (that's why he wore one glove) and Ken Shamrock, the only one who even had the tools to give Royce trouble.
 
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