What happened to all the real men?

[koquerelle]

"Real Men" is a baseless societal construct stemming from nonsencical antideluvian religious ifluence predominately used by insecure incels.

TS thinks posting shitty threads is manly. He probably wears a hockey helmet and diaper 24/7. Real manly.

 

[Koro_11]

More like thinking with their greed instead of their higher nature.

Are you 12?

You think an employer just giving his employee more money is some higher value?

 

[Better Every Day]

Are you 12?

You think an employer just giving his employee more money is some higher value?

I noticed how you inserted "just" in there. Do you know the history of labor battles in the US? And I don't mean "battles" only as a figure of speach. I mean bullets flying battles. I don't think they teach this part of US history in schools (except Universities).

Check out the Wikipedia article:
List of worker deaths in United States labor disputes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_deaths_in_United_States_labor_disputes
and the section:
Law enforcement and companies' militia, armed detectives and guards

The article says that one study (Philip Taft and Philip Ross, "American Labor Violence: Its Causes, Character, and Outcome," The History of Violence in America: A Report to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, ed. Hugh Davis Graham and Ted Robert Gurr, 1969) arrived at the conclusion that "the United States has had the bloodiest and most violent labor history of any industrial nation in the world, and there have been few industries which have been immune".

And you have the gall to ask if I'm 12, and do I think that "an employer just giving his employee more money is some higher value?" Let me ask YOU if you are such a scoundrel that you think that underpaying employees is just smart, and has no moral ramifications?

 

[CroCopsLHK]

Real men post on sherdog insinuating that pro mma fighters aren't real men

Boom

 

[MRT]

I mean you got everyone from Ngannou, to Jones, to Cejudo, etc… all these champions and world beaters crying for more money on twitter and social media.

What happened to just sitting down with the boss face to face and talking straight man to man?

Airing your dirty laundry on social media not only makes them come across as whiny and pathetic, but it also seems counterproductive to what they’re trying to accomplish. Dana White comes across as a stubborn fuck that holds grudges and doubles down when you try to make him look bad so it seems that every time they do it they reduce their own chance at coming to an agreement.

If you don’t think your current boss appreciates you and doesn’t pay you enough, then go work elsewhere.

What’s that? Oh you signed a contract and you’re expected to fulfill your end of the bargain? Welcome to the real world, that’s what men do, follow through with the terms they’ve agreed to.

I don’t like Dana and I like to shit on the UFC as much as the next guy, but every time I see one of these snowflakes whining about how many millions they’re worth on social media it just makes me less interested in seeing them fight.

"STFU and honour your contract" doesn't sit well with me when the UFC has the power to unilaterally terminate a contract at any time, for any reason.

It is only a legitimate criticism when BOTH sides are bound to honour it until it completion or else to *mutually* agree to terminate.

Until that is the case, I typically will support whatever fighters do to level the playing field in terms of job security and earnings.

As for sitting down face to face to solve issues, I'm all for it...I just don't get the impression that the UFC has been terribly accommodating in that regard, judging by what we know about its practices from the anti-trust suit (and having said that, I'm sure some MMA managers are not the most cooperative folks either).

 

[Koro_11]

I noticed how you inserted "just" in there. Do you know the history of labor battles in the US? And I don't mean "battles" only as a figure of speach. I mean bullets flying battles. I don't think they teach this part of US history in schools (except Universities).

Check out the Wikipedia article:
List of worker deaths in United States labor disputes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_deaths_in_United_States_labor_disputes
and the section:
Law enforcement and companies' militia, armed detectives and guards

The article says that one study (Philip Taft and Philip Ross, "American Labor Violence: Its Causes, Character, and Outcome," The History of Violence in America: A Report to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, ed. Hugh Davis Graham and Ted Robert Gurr, 1969) arrived at the conclusion that "the United States has had the bloodiest and most violent labor history of any industrial nation in the world, and there have been few industries which have been immune".

And you have the gall to ask if I'm 12, and do I think that "an employer just giving his employee more money is some higher value?" Let me ask YOU if you are such a scoundrel that you think that underpaying employees is just smart, and has no moral ramifications?

No I dont think underpaying them is smart or good in the long run.

But how do determine who is “underpaid”?

You and many others seem all to happy to simply chalk it up to UFC = wrong, any fighter who complains = right.

It seems like a conversation that could only be had if you wanna address a specific case, but to just generalize that company is the bad guy while every employee is a good guy is fucken silly.

Im sure a bunch of fighters deserve more than they’re making, but for every one of them you also got someone like Jessica fucken Eye who shouldn’t even be on the roster and no one should be paying anything to watch her fight.

 

[DebtCollectorMMA]

Plot twist: this is why they brought in USADA

 

[Koro_11]

"STFU and honour your contract" doesn't sit well with me when the UFC has the power to unilaterally terminate a contract at any time, for any reason.

It is only a legitimate criticism when BOTH sides are bound to honour it until it completion or else to *mutually* agree to terminate.

Until that is the case, I typically will support whatever fighters do to level the playing field in terms of job security and earnings.

As for sitting down face to face to solve issues, I'm all for it...I just don't get the impression that the UFC has been terribly accommodating in that regard, judging by what we know about its practices from the anti-trust suit (and having said that, I'm sure some MMA managers are not the most cooperative folks either).

Ok but was that not in the contract that the fighter signed, that the UFC reserves that right?

Ya I think it is, otherwise they couldn’t do it.

So yes at the end of the day the fighter signed up for it and he knew it, and if he’s too stupid to read the fine print and didn’t know it then that’s too fucken bad because it was on him to do so. These are grown fucken men who agreed to the terms they’re bound by, you’re acting as if it’s child slave labour ffs.

 

[Shaddows]

I agree, and inevitably another company will rise up which will be more appealing to work for and UFC will have to up their game. That’s how natural progress in a free society works. In the meantime if you’ve got no leverage you’re shit out of luck, this is true in every profession why should cage fighting be any different?

They are not united, and only if they were, they could do something about it. They need an union, or a league. just like the NBA, NFL, NHL....

The problem is basically their profession (or shall I say their competitive nature).
They all think they "will make it" to the top, and then it will rain money and they will get what's due to them.

 

[Royce's Gi]

"Real Men" is a baseless societal construct stemming from nonsencical antideluvian religious ifluence predominately used by insecure incels.

Spoken like a true libby biden-voter.

 

[Number 8]

It's 2022. Men are woman or they indentify as apache helicopter.

There'll be trans MMA, trans olympics and a trans USA president in the next 5-10 yers, wait and see.

 

[MRT]

Ok but was that not in the contract that the fighter signed, that the UFC reserves that right?

Ya I think it is, otherwise they couldn’t do it.

So yes at the end of the day the fighter signed up for it and he knew it, and if he’s too stupid to read the fine print and didn’t know it then that’s too fucken bad because it was on him to do so. These are grown fucken men who agreed to the terms they’re bound by, you’re acting as if it’s child slave labour ffs.

Of course they know what they are signing...but since when does signing a contract or accepting a job mean that you have to be 100% happy and satisfied, and never complain? People sign contracts and take jobs in 'normal life' all the time that are not 100% satisfactory. You don't give up the right to complain as a result.

Do you not recognize the inherent unfairness of the UFC being able to terminate the contract at any time? (Let's not even get into the coercive practices around renegotiation that the anti-trust suit has highlighted).

The UFC is using the tools at its disposal...the ability to impose a contract with highly favourable terms. Well, the fighters are using the tools at their disposal...the ability to sit out, to publicly complain, to criticize and advocate for change, etc.

If you don't like hearing the fighters complain, or see them sit out, or have them wanting to renegotiate all the time, etc...then maybe you should consider advocating for a more level playing field where the contracts are not so heavily skewed in favour of the UFC?

 

[Koro_11]

Of course they know what they are signing...but since when does signing a contract or accepting a job mean that you have to be 100% happy and satisfied, and never complain? People sign contracts and take jobs in 'normal life' all the time that are not 100% satisfactory. You don't give up the right to complain as a result.

Do you not recognize the inherent unfairness of the UFC being able to terminate the contract at any time? (Let's not even get into the coercive practices around renegotiation that the anti-trust suit has highlighted).

The UFC is using the tools at its disposal...the ability to impose a contract with highly favourable terms. Well, the fighters are using the tools at their disposal...the ability to sit out, to publicly complain, to criticize and advocate for change, etc.

If you don't like hearing the fighters complain, or see them sit out, or have them wanting to renegotiate all the time, etc...then maybe you should consider advocating for a more level playing field where the contracts are not so heavily skewed in favour of the UFC?

And I would never suggest that they shouldn’t have the right to complain, I just think it makes them look sad.

 

[MRT]

And I would never suggest that they shouldn’t have the right to complain, I just think it makes them look sad.

They are sad...because it's a sad situation for many of them.

 

[KeithHackneyballpunch]

I mean you got everyone from Ngannou, to Jones, to Cejudo, etc… all these champions and world beaters crying for more money on twitter and social media.

What happened to just sitting down with the boss face to face and talking straight man to man?

Airing your dirty laundry on social media not only makes them come across as whiny and pathetic, but it also seems counterproductive to what they’re trying to accomplish. Dana White comes across as a stubborn fuck that holds grudges and doubles down when you try to make him look bad so it seems that every time they do it they reduce their own chance at coming to an agreement.

If you don’t think your current boss appreciates you and doesn’t pay you enough, then go work elsewhere.

What’s that? Oh you signed a contract and you’re expected to fulfill your end of the bargain? Welcome to the real world, that’s what men do, follow through with the terms they’ve agreed to.

I don’t like Dana and I like to shit on the UFC as much as the next guy, but every time I see one of these snowflakes whining about how many millions they’re worth on social media it just makes me less interested in seeing them fight.

all the "real Men" come from Russia, Chechnya and/or other impoverished nations.

very few Americans know what "struggle" really means.

I mean, most Americans have a meltdown if they can't get a WiFi connection or if they forget their Netflix password.

I don't think many on this forum have been broke AF and have had "sleep" for dinner.

 

[Koro_11]

They are sad...because it's a sad situation for many of them.

It’s a sad situation for your local construction worker, and the janitor, and the garbage man, and the Uber driver, and the assembly line worker, and so on… still waiting for someone to tell me why the cage fighter is somehow special and exempt from the rules that apply to the rest of us.

 

[Loking]

Henry Cejudo?

 

[Captain Herb]

Do you understand what “he signed a contract” means?

Do you understand that just because you sign a contract doesn't mean it's legal or enforceable? Do you understand that there is a class action lawsuit proceeding in the courts where UFC has lost at every turn so far?

 

[TimeToTrain]

Real men? Lots of them in the real world working, providing for their families.

 

[Koro_11]

Do you understand that just because you sign a contract doesn't mean it's legal or enforceable? Do you understand that there is a class action lawsuit proceeding in the courts where UFC has lost at every turn so far?

What I understand is that when one man gives his word to another he is to follow through on his promise. Anything short of that and they’re not a real man in my opinion.

You’re talking about loopholes and ways that people can weasel out of the deals they made. Yes I’m sure that exists too, but we are no longer talking about men.