Crime What did the cops do wrong today Megathread Vol. 6 ? (who knows, lots of cop threads)

nhbbear said:
He matched the description. It’s in the article I believe. I posted the tweet to show the “outrage”
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Ok, we’ll need a lot more details then to conclude anything. If the description wasn’t very detailed and they ended up shooting a guy who only matched a vague description and may had drawn a fireman because there was a shooter in the area this is not so black and white.

Not saying that’s what happened but figuring out if they shot the right guy or not is an important step before concluding a shooting was justified, correct?
 
shockaholic12 said:
Ok, we’ll need a lot more details then to conclude anything. If the description wasn’t very detailed and they ended up shooting a guy who only matched a vague description and may had drawn a fireman because there was a shooter in the area this is not so black and white.

Not saying that’s what happened but figuring out if they shot the right guy or not is an important step before concluding a shooting was justified, correct?
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The family andthe lawyer don't seem to be making that argument. They are saying it wasn't justified because he was laying on the ground not that he wasn't the shooter.
 
Were the cops driving a UTV in the city? If it's a fast UTV then that's pretty neat.
 
oldshadow said:
The shooting was justified. The family and lawyers will publish 8th grade photos and say way a great guy he was. Austin is a very liberal town so I'm not sure this will not go somewhere. Maybe not legal charges and the city giving them money and the cops told on the side their career are stalled where they are if not forced to quit.

And why would anyone in their right mind want to be a cop now. Especially in any large city.
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I think they are stating that he has three daughters. I am sure he had an active role in their lives
 
shockaholic12 said:
Ok, we’ll need a lot more details then to conclude anything. If the description wasn’t very detailed and they ended up shooting a guy who only matched a vague description and may had drawn a fireman because there was a shooter in the area this is not so black and white.

Not saying that’s what happened but figuring out if they shot the right guy or not is an important step before concluding a shooting was justified, correct?
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Here are my thoughts on this-it really doesn’t matter if they shot the guy as the information the officers had at the time per graham v Connor justifies this shooting. I am curious if the gun had been fired and if he had gsr on hands and clothing.
 
Assuming the facts in the article are correct and it was in fact Franklin who shot the first victim (ballistic match of the rounds if possible) then it is really hard to defend his actions. The only qualm I have is they shot him while he was rolling on the ground. I do see the point about him being an active shooter so he relinquished his rights but it could also be a case of mistaken identity. Basically i share the same concern that Shockoholic has. A black guy in all dark clothing isn't exactly an odd or rare sight and the man just could happen to be a carrying a weapon (legal or illegal). I mean it isn't rare for anybody from the hood (black, latino, whatever) to flee from cops when approached (especially if they just happen to be holding an illegal weapon). Hopefully Franklin is confirmed as the suspected shooter.
 
nhbbear said:


Police were called by multiple people stating that a suspect was shooting a gun and shot a person. Description given, Anthony Marquis Franklin was encountered and had a gun in hand. He then ran and was shot in the back by police. Family has lawyers that are demanding charges be brought against the officers involved.

Case law that covers this shooting.

TN v Garner and Graham v Connor

TN v Garner is the case that deals with a fleeing felon and when police can shooting a fleeing subject. Basically, it says that police can only shoot a fleeing suspect when there is an immediate threat to the officers or the public.

Graham v Connor is the case that deals with officer use of force. The force has to be proportional to the crime and risk posed by the suspect without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight based upon information officers possessed at the time of the use of force. I have listed the graham factors in the past. If anyone wants me to list those again, I will.

Bottom line: absolutely justified according to both cases. This suspect had already shot one person, is encountered carrying a gun, and flees-posing a risk to the general public that outweighs the suspect’s fourth amendment rights to unreasonable search and seizure (all use of force is a 4th amendment seizure).

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/ant...olice-officers-attorneys-call-for-justice.amp
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Sooooooo that tweet is patently false propaganda
 
nhbbear said:
Here are my thoughts on this-it really doesn’t matter if they shot the guy as the information the officers had at the time per graham v Connor justifies this shooting. I am curious if the gun had been fired and if he had gsr on hands and clothing.
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Getting away from the reality of this case it seems but whatever.

I think it would matter because obviously not all descriptions are equal, some are very vague and some are detailed, and if are police are responding to the scene of a shooting it's not going to be uncommon for them to encounter people fleeing who may be carrying guns in self defense.
 
Scrody said:
Crazy how the other guy on the porch ran towards them with his hands up, without a gun, and wasn't shot.
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Yeah. His attire saved him. Red hat, light grey long sleeve and jeans. The suspect was someone wearing all dark clothing.
 
SaiWa said:
Assuming the facts in the article are correct and it was in fact Franklin who shot the first victim (ballistic match of the rounds if possible) then it is really hard to defend his actions. The only qualm I have is they shot him while he was rolling on the ground. I do see the point about him being an active shooter so he relinquished his rights but it could also be a case of mistaken identity. Basically i share the same concern that Shockoholic has. A black guy in all dark clothing isn't exactly an odd or rare sight and the man just could happen to be a carrying a weapon (legal or illegal). I mean it isn't rare for anybody from the hood (black, latino, whatever) to flee from cops when approached (especially if they just happen to be holding an illegal weapon). Hopefully Franklin is confirmed as the suspected shooter.
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As I told shock, it doesn’t matter if he was the shooter or not. The police had a description that he matched that said a male fitting that description shot someone and he tries to run while armed. Graham v Connor states that officers can only be judged on the information they had at the moment force was used. So, based upon that, they have a suspect matching the description with a gun and he is running after they rightfully perceived him as a threat based upon the fact that someone was shot. I hope the gsr tests and ballistics come back as a match, but it doesn’t really matter based upon established case law
 
shockaholic12 said:
Getting away from the reality of this case it seems but whatever.

I think it would matter because obviously not all descriptions are equal, some are very vague and some are detailed, and if are police are responding to the scene of a shooting it's not going to be uncommon for them to encounter people fleeing who may be carrying guns in self defense.
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The police were shouting instructions to him and he still ran with a firearm. His actions forced the officers to shoot him
 
It would've been a tragedy if he got away and killed a truly innocent person.
 
Scrody said:
His behavior saved him, not his clothing.
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I am going to disagree with this based on what I actually saw.

The suspect fell on the ground and rolled. He had no chance to make any other moves. He technically isn't a threat at that moment. He was shot based on recognition (suspect was wearing dark clothes). Had he dropped on the ground, raised his hands up and kept on running (like the other guy) you think he would have not been shot?

Sad to say but cops are not trained to shoot in response to an actual threat. They're not waiting to be shot at. I personally see no difference between one suspect running away with his hands up vs a suspect falling on the ground and rolling around when it comes to threat level. The difference between the two was the cops were looking for someone in dark clothes. They could have easily shot the other guy (as you admitted that it was crazy that he wasn't shot).
 
nhbbear said:
As I told shock, it doesn’t matter if he was the shooter or not. The police had a description that he matched that said a male fitting that description shot someone and he tries to run while armed. Graham v Connor states that officers can only be judged on the information they had at the moment force was used. So, based upon that, they have a suspect matching the description with a gun and he is running after they rightfully perceived him as a threat based upon the fact that someone was shot. I hope the gsr tests and ballistics come back as a match, but it doesn’t really matter based upon established case law
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No it does matter. He could have just been an innocent black guy with a legal gun who's afraid of cops. That ain't exactly a rare thing in the United States. It is unlikely so hopefully the ballistics and evidence will prove that Franklin was the shooter. But let's say for shits and giggles it wasn't Franklin and it just so happens to be another black guy in dark attire that was the real shooter and successfully got away. Then the cops just killed an innocent man because he was scared and ran away from cops. I don't give a rat's ass about established case law if that's the truth.
 
If the account in the article was fully factual I can find no fault with the police on this one.
 
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