What could they have done?

[GSPFEDORLIDDELL]

Alright you got Anderson, Gsp, and Fedor. They're pretty much the 3 that come to mind in the GOAT discussion. What more do you think they could have done to establish themselves as the absolute p4p goat? And don't say shit like fight something other than cans or finish fights or whatever because we all know the second you do that, that a million fanboys are gonna destroy this thread with stats.

 

[Sharknado]

It's very difficult with those 3.

Everyones argument against GSP will be how he won, all those decisions.

Anderson and Fedor are gonna be about the competition they faced (even though all of them at the time were legit).


It really does come down to personal biased, at least accomplishment wise.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Honest answer?


Fedor could have come to the UFC and fought through the competition they had at that time.


GSP could have moved up to MW and fought the competition there.


Anderson could have taken all his fights 100% serious and not fucked around in them (like the Maia fight for example)


But that is about it imo. I could go into more detail about it, but thats the broad brush version.

 

[GSPFEDORLIDDELL]

It's very difficult with those 3.

Everyones argument against GSP will be how he won, all those decisions.

Anderson and Fedor are gonna be about the competition they faced (even though all of them at the time were legit).


It really does come down to personal biased, at least accomplishment wise.

Well like the way I was lookin at it was like if Gsp had fought silva or silva had fought somebody like filho that would've done wonders for them in this discussion win or lose.

 

[asharak]

Fedor could have come to the UFC and fought through the competition they had at that time.

What competition? Timmeh and AA were the top UFC guys in his era.(Tim is still the UFC HW GOAT)

 

[tkotom]

Honest answer?


Fedor could have come to the UFC and fought through the competition they had at that time.


GSP could have moved up to MW and fought the competition there.


Anderson could have taken all his fights 100% serious and not fucked around in them (like the Maia fight for example)


But that is about it imo. I could go into more detail about it, but thats the broad brush version.

That is how Anderson fights.

 

[Rittsy]

Both GSP and Anderson could still do more.

 

[Ziggyjuarez]

You started and finished your own thread.

 

[zhb]

Gsp could have actually fought instead of being a human blanket!

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

What competition? Timmeh and AA were the top UFC guys in his era.(Tim is still the UFC HW GOAT)

That is how Anderson fights.

The question was, what could they have done (to further) their claim to GOAT status -at least thats how I took the question


I am not saying that these things bother me personally, its more an observation of the main criticisms these 3 get the most. If those criticisms were removed, I beleive that would further their cause here.

I think all 3 of these guys are about even as far as GOAT status for differing reasons myself.

 

[Codpiece]

Well like the way I was lookin at it was like if Gsp had fought silva or silva had fought somebody like filho that would've done wonders for them in this discussion win or lose.

I think the hole in that argument is that GSP almost always had division in which there were seriously good challengers, and he also is not an especially huge WW. Him staying at WW was always pretty sensible. Anderson had some pretty weak comp, and also was fairly tall and lengthy, so him fighting at LHW for yuks was a bit easier.

I've never been sold on the idea that Anderson could have been a successful LHW long term, at least not on the scale of his MW success, FWIW.

Actually I really agree with Sharknado's explanation, pretty much sums it up.

 

[FallonFoxGOAT]

What more do you think they could have done to establish themselves as the absolute p4p goat? And don't say shit like fight something other than cans or finish fights or whatever

So you ask us what more they could have done ... then tell us not to answer that question.

Odd...

 

[Codpiece]

The question was, what could they have done (to further) their claim to GOAT status -at least thats how I took the question


I am not saying that these things bother me personally, its more an observation of the main criticisms these 3 get the most. If those criticisms were removed, I beleive that would further their cause here.

I think all 3 of these guys are about even as far as GOAT status for differing reasons myself.

Most of my post was addressing the notion that GSP should have fought at MW, and explaining why that never made snese, but yeah, I guess based on the OP that certainly would have been one way to cement himself as the GOAT. That and some more finishes in the last 4 years or so of his career.

 

[moreorless87]

Honest answer?


Fedor could have come to the UFC and fought through the competition they had at that time.

This would have helped in terms of hype but realistically if we look back the fights with Randy and Brock weren't the career defining matches they were hyped to be, ironically Werdum has proven to be much more legit.

The biggest holes in Fedor's career were I'd say not of his making, that is the lack of a rematch with Crocop post OWGP and no fight vs Barnett in Pride or Affliction. You could add I spose a match with Sergei although again fate really saw to that as Nog beat him in 04 and Aleks in 06. You could I spose argue he should have pushed to fight Sergei on NYE 2007 rather than Choi although I don't know how fit he was at that point given that he spent over a year on the shelf post Overeem win then never looked the same afterwards.

GSP could have moved up to MW and fought the competition there.

The big issue for many is obviously the way GSP fought although personally I also think that the quality of WW during much of his reign was rather overhyped, especially in terms of the variety of skill sets he faced.

Its tough to say someone should have fought at a size disadvantage to prove themselves, I spose technically they could have but I don't view it as a negative if they didn't.

Anderson could have taken all his fights 100% serious and not fucked around in them (like the Maia fight for example)

But that is about it imo. I could go into more detail about it, but thats the broad brush version.

I think the Weidman fights really exploded the myth that Anderson was messing around vs guys like Maia and Leites. What we saw in those matches was IMHO Silva struggling to deal with dangerous grapplers who didn't offer any openings to counter, neither man was willing to take a risk and the result was a boring stand off.

Silva for me is the most obvious "could have" in that I think he could have moved up to 205 in 2008 after beating Hendo. Guys like Shogun, Rashad and Machida weren't outsized for him and at that point represented the best challenges his size.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

I think the Weidman fights really exploded the myth that Anderson was messing around vs guys like Maia and Leites. What we saw in those matches was IMHO Silva struggling to deal with dangerous grapplers who didn't offer any openings to counter, neither man was willing to take a risk and the result was a boring stand off.

Silva for me is the most obvious "could have" in that I think he could have moved up to 205 in 2008 after beating Hendo. Guys like Shogun, Rashad and Machida weren't outsized for him and at that point represented the best challenges his size.

Dude, Silva was fucking around in those fights. The seperation between Weidman and the others was that Chris was able to do something about it while the others were not, pretty simple.

Silva fucked around in fights he dominated too, Forrest Griffin comes to mind.

Chael, in the 1st fight, was the only fighter in that span that Silva couldn't fuck around against because Sonnen attacked constantly. And we all saw how quickly that fight was over the 2nd time around when Andy went in there with intent.

 

[GSPFEDORLIDDELL]

So you ask us what more they could have done ... then tell us not to answer that question.

Odd...

i'm not saying not to answer I just don't want this to be a thread about gsp not finishing or anderson and fedor being can crushers. If you can't think of any other way for them to have furthered their careers well then get out.

 

[moreorless87]

Dude, Silva was fucking around in those fights. The seperation between Weidman and the others was that Chris was able to do something about it while the others were not, pretty simple.

Silva fucked around in fights he dominated too, Forrest Griffin comes to mind.

Chael, in the 1st fight, was the only fighter in that span that Silva couldn't fuck around against because Sonnen attacked constantly. And we all saw how quickly that fight was over the 2nd time around when Andy went in there with intent.

Silva was trying to play his typical mind games with Weidman in the 1st fight looking to draw out some sloppy standup he could counter. Nothing wrong with that and you can point to many fights were it seemed to work(most obviously Forrest).

In the rematch Silva had the chance to prove he'd just underestimate Weidman but the reality was he couldn't do anything to Chris even without the clowning/mind games.

 

[theincognito]

GSP could've and should've at least finish Hardy and blind Koscheck.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Silva was trying to play his typical mind games with Weidman in the 1st fight looking to draw out some sloppy standup he could counter. Nothing wrong with that and you can point to many fights were it seemed to work(most obviously Forrest).

In the rematch Silva had the chance to prove he'd just underestimate Weidman but the reality was he couldn't do anything to Chris even without the clowning/mind games.

Like I said, Chis was able to do something about it i.e. Chris was better match-up wise for Silva than the others.


People can say that what Silva did was part of his strategy -and I do beleive Andy himself has said that- and thats fine. But that just means that his style/strategy was to get in the cage, drop his hands, and start fucking around at some point.

He didn't fuck around against Rich the 1st time, nor Hendo or Sonnen (in their 2nd fight). So I would say that he does not always use it as his strategy or style.

I think he just watched too many Roy Jones Jr highlights personally.

 

[caliboi74lv]

Dude, Silva was fucking around in those fights. The seperation between Weidman and the others was that Chris was able to do something about it while the others were not, pretty simple.

Silva fucked around in fights he dominated too, Forrest Griffin comes to mind.

Chael, in the 1st fight, was the only fighter in that span that Silva couldn't fuck around against because Sonnen attacked constantly. And we all saw how quickly that fight was over the 2nd time around when Andy went in there with intent.

I agree. I'll say Silva, was fucking around too much in the second round of the first fight with the Chris. The first round Weidman was beatin him. It's that Chris didn't get flustered or frustrated and timed his shots. The second fight, Chris just showed he could beat AS. Yes, unfortunately the leg break, but Silva was losin.
The second Chael fight, Sonnen made a mistake and Silva capitalized. I think Silva would have done that anyways.