What are your favorite techniques in Clinch?

[roventu]

I'm looking more particularly about techniques in Muay thai clinch (minus elbows), but feel free to input mma or wrestling clinch, im sure it'd still be valuable to me.

What do you try to accomplish once you get into the clinch? What are your first steps, gameplan, etc. The more detail, the better!


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For me, position is important, i try to get a dominant position before i ever throw a knee (although it might be better if i threw side knees to soften up his posture first). side knees to the body dont really hurt though IMO, unless you hit the thigh part right above the knee, those kinda hurt

If I do get double collar ties or one strong one, i always wait to stuff their defense to get out before I throw a knee. If they try to crossface, I try to push up on their elbow and negate the crossface, then throw a knee on that open side. If they try to hug me to close distance, i dig my elbows into their chest to frame and keep the distance, this usually leads to them breaking posture and then i knee.

if we are in neutral position (head and forearm hand grip), if I cant get into dominant position I usually just hug them and try to throw/fall on them or try to break. Any time I break from clinch, im throwing their upper body in the direction of a roundhouse as we break.

my clinch game is very elementary though, I dont have counters to different techniques like I do for boxing. this has a lot to do with my gym not emphasizing clinch, which sucks because I think its the best advantage over other kickboxing arts

 

[j123]

I use a knee from the outside to initiate it, and get a single collar. I do alot work from there actually, double dollar is nice, but alot times I end up with single collar.

So ideally: initiate -> single collar -> knee -> turn -> double collar -> knee knee knee
-turn when they start trying to pummel or escape
-if they get single collar (or close to double), and its a hassle to get back, I dump them

I find that when someone knows how to clinch well, its near impossible to get a double collar, and majority of the time is spent with single collar. Not to mention both of us throwing out elbows when you try for days to pummel for the double

 

[rmongler]

Kuzushi.

When he is unbalanced, all throws are possible.

When he cannot unbalance you, no throws are possible.

 

[Frode Falch]

I got three things i like to do.

1) round knees to the body.

2) dirty uppercuts with one hand around the head/neck.

3) push him away into a headkick.

 

[Kickzilla]

I love push/pull sweeps and throws, there are multiple positions they work from, including different grips.

 

[roventu]

Do you guys like your head slight above their head (to the side) or under their head? Because I've heard you want your head under their chin to have better control in the clinch, but I feel like the higher it is the better leverage you have (with your upperbody being higher than theirs).

The chin under their neck might be a wrestling thing actually, but I'm not completely sure it doesnt translate to muay thai clinch.

 

[Kickzilla]

Do you guys like your head slight above their head (to the side) or under their head? Because I've heard you want your head under their chin to have better control in the clinch, but I feel like the higher it is the better leverage you have (with your upperbody being higher than theirs).

The chin under their neck might be a wrestling thing actually, but I'm not completely sure it doesnt translate to muay thai clinch.

You want to always try to maintain solid neck and head posture that is tall. Head under the chin is definitely a wrestling principle and it's sound, but does little to discourage a good nak may from using it as a leverage point for easier knees. The head and neck posture shouldn't be stiff but imagine yourself relaxing into being a statue, that postural structure about the whole clinch in muay thai is part of the subtle depth of the clinch a lot of people don't notice. The goal is imbalance which then results in being battered by knees and elbows, but imbalance, knees, and elbows shouldn't be separate things, they should flow in every clinch pummel you're in, and learning to perceive even an inch of imbalance (be it through posture breaking down, tripping, throwing, or having your guy not as sure footed) is where you get those big openings to sneak in your weapons.

 

[j123]

Do you guys like your head slight above their head (to the side) or under their head? Because I've heard you want your head under their chin to have better control in the clinch, but I feel like the higher it is the better leverage you have (with your upperbody being higher than theirs).

The chin under their neck might be a wrestling thing actually, but I'm not completely sure it doesnt translate to muay thai clinch.

Only when I'm trying to pummel. If I'm on the attack (turns, push, pull, etc), I don't do that. On the defense, trying to swim my way in and keep things tight, then I will use head positioning.

 

[Kickzilla]

Only when I'm trying to pummel. If I'm on the attack (turns, push, pull, etc), I don't do that. On the defense, trying to swim my way in and keep things tight, then I will use head positioning.

Yeah good point and to add to that you can use head control to create serious discomfort on your guy, and use that to stall them or create more openings for you. Gluing your head by their ear for instance, especially with the crown of your head, when your hips are tight with their's, is a solid side position.

 

[roventu]

have you guys ever gotten the head and arm side clinch position? Imo that is the most dominant position in clinch, its almost impossible to get out of. I dont even think there's a great escape, just try to get your arm back into the game and face them.

 

[j123]

have you guys ever gotten the head and arm side clinch position? Imo that is the most dominant position in clinch, its almost impossible to get out of. I dont even think there's a great escape, just try to get your arm back into the game and face them.

The arm triangle position? Yeah its great.
And you can legally choke the guy out as well, just bs some slapping knees to sell it. Ref's gonna say no choking, and you say its the clinch, and you tried to hold on tight while striking, and your opponent just happens to be fading to unconsciousness.

But that is the "escape", you bring your arm through, and try to end up in a single collar. Anything past B-class, and you could try to elbow your way out as well.

 

[Kickzilla]

have you guys ever gotten the head and arm side clinch position? Imo that is the most dominant position in clinch, its almost impossible to get out of. I dont even think there's a great escape, just try to get your arm back into the game and face them.

When you're in that, on your free arm side swing your entire forearm up and towards their lat muscle under their armpit.

 

[roventu]

When you're in that, on your free arm side swing your entire forearm up and towards their lat muscle under their armpit.

so you try to take their back?

 

[rmongler]

have you guys ever gotten the head and arm side clinch position? Imo that is the most dominant position in clinch, its almost impossible to get out of. I dont even think there's a great escape, just try to get your arm back into the game and face them.

Slidebys/throwbys/duckunders are money moves in the clinch. You look at guys with strong clinches in mma and you see more than a few of them also did greco-roman, like Jones.

There's also snap down to front headlock, if rules allow.

If you're up against a wall, that's the time where digging your head under their chin pays off. The thing to do there is get cross wrist control, look away from their free side, then pop them with a same side hook using your free hand.

If you are proactive with hand control, you can beat someone up for days against the cage with very little risk in return. Its like ground and pound, but vertical.

I've mentioned this before, but Ive always thought that strategy is the counter to the sprawl and brawl/wrestlebox meta game that's so common these days (besides the direct route of just strait up training your takedowns better than they are training takedown defense, like GSP or Maia).

 

[Kickzilla]

so you try to take their back?

It'll throw them off, it's tricky to get the very first time you try it, imagine you're turning a giant wheel.

 

[Beijing Power]

It'll throw them off, it's tricky to get the very first time you try it, imagine you're turning a giant wheel.

It's easiest to do when u you have the inside position (i.e. hands around their neck) and they collar tie you. U lift their arm up at the elbow and duck under as much as u need to. U end up standing with ur hips perpendicular to their's; sort of like a standing arm triangle. From here, you can work ur magic with slap knees to the kidneys, solar plexus, and liver.

From this position, u can break the clinch intentionally to set up a lot of fun things. Lead hand hooks to the head or body are good as are rear hand hooks to the kidney. I think you might be able to get off a shovel hook (upper cut?) punch to the floating ribs as well.

But unfortunately, u can only pull this off once or twice tho. As soon they catch on to what ur trying to do and they will try to either create as much distance as possible when u break the clinch, or even worse, try to set up a counter. U can combat this by either starting to push them just after they break and/or by using longer range weapons like kicks or straight knees with a forward step.

If they are slow to get their trapped arm back into guard, u might be able to get off a solid rear hand straight/hook.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I'm shorter a lot of the time so I like to keep in pretty close and use things like crossfaces, I do push away into the high kick Peter Aerts style as a main set up, but when actually in the clinch my main technique is this:

One of the things with the double collar tie is that it's really easy to counter, so I immediately step to the side and cross face like Yod does here. Which lets you turn around into some nice elbows as he demonstrates.

Another trick I do is to drop my hips, and drive my head up under my opponents chin while putting pressure on with my arms from the other side. I usually call the type of hold I have a square lock because I don't actually know the term, but I have one arm around the back of my opponents neck (above his shoulder) and the other arm going under his arm with my hands connected in a gable grip, with a lot of tight pressure.

It's similar to this.

Worth mentioning that although I don't use the double collar tie too often, when I do I clasp my hands in a gable grip when around the neck to put more pressure on, or I will grab the head and not the neck so it's harder for the opponent to fight. Grabbing your own wrist rather than your hand is also a good way of locking your opponent in as well as it's harder to get through a forearm than it is two hands.

I also really like to make use of double underhooks as well.

It's easy to get caught up into going for the double collar tie, but you'll notice that a lot of the best Thai clinch fighters rarely use it at all. That doesn't mean it's not useful because it's a very good position to attack from, but it's also not the only position to use.

 

[roventu]

It'll throw them off, it's tricky to get the very first time you try it, imagine you're turning a giant wheel.

just to make sure, are you talking about being the one in the head-and-arm choke or the one with the side clinch? bc now im thinking you're talking about being the aggressor. im wondering about how to defend or escape this position (as the defender)

 

[Kickzilla]

just to make sure, are you talking about being the one in the head-and-arm choke or the one with the side clinch? bc now im thinking you're talking about being the aggressor. im wondering about how to defend or escape this position (as the defender)

No, as defender. Try it, get a training partner mess around with it.

Update: To clarify, referring to the head lock in the Thai clinch in Muay Thai, with or without the arm in the lock. Use the free arm.

 

[rmongler]

Reminds me of this: