What are the 3 most intricate throws?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Calibur, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    In Judo class today my teacher decided to make it uchi mata intensive. I have "done" this move for years. for a while it was one of my go-to throws. Today we were forced to focus on these little details and I felt I was learning them for the first time. I know, by the look of my teammates, that they felt the same.

    Something about Judo. I have been taught the Osoto Gari by half a dozen people and each time the explanations have been wildly different. It's not like in BJJ where every teaches the triangle choke the same way give or take a detail. Or everyone teaches an armbar the same way give or take a detail. In Judo the sensei/sempai will say grab here and only here. This is best. I saw two high level black belts (Jpnz) actually get into an argument in front of me (VERY rare in Jpn) over which grip was the right one.

    Anyhow. When people ask me what my favorite move is I will no longer say Uchi Mata. I will explain that I attempt an Uchi Mata and throw my opponent down but I never actually DO an uchi mata. I will be "learning" that throw for the rest of my life.

    Anyway, my top 3 intricate throws.

    Uchi mata (surprise)
    Tsurikomi Goshi (regular)
    Koshi Guruma
     
  2. Cirno

    Cirno Orange Belt

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    Mine would have to be:

    Uchimata - the mechanics just doesn't make sense to me but I still manage to pull it off)

    Uki/Sumi Otoshi - I feel like I'm doing Aikido when I pull this off

    Deashi Barai - It's like Othello; a minute to learn, a lifetime to master.
     
  3. davejitsu

    davejitsu Purple Belt

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    Id say:
    1)yoko otoshi
    2)sumi gaeshi
    3)makikomi

    I pick these three, b/c of the leverages if not properly done really put one in a bad and vulnerable position.
     
  4. IChinaManI

    IChinaManI Green Belt

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    de ashi barai. I will never be able to understand how some people can just launch others with it. I feel like I'm kicking them in the achilles tendon lol. Uchi mata is another one, every now and then i'll get one that feels effortless yet super powerful. Then I get owned the other times i try it. So many things with it that I need to work on. uchi mata is like a lifelong goal haha.
     
  5. PSJJJJ

    PSJJJJ Guest

    I am the same friggin way with Uchi Mata. I can't understand it. Like the TS, I recently went through an entire 2 hour session just learning the throw. I nailed it a few times and it felt great, but now it seems I haven't even come close with it. Albeit I'm fairly short.
     
  6. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Hane Goshi is by far the most intricate and toughest to do.

    Uchimata is intricate yet simple. It is very hard to each. Some guys can perform it 100% perfect, but cannot teach it at all. But once you truly *get* it, it's a piece of cake



    Osoto Gari is taught to begginers is INCREDIBLY detailed, if you wanna do it perfectly.


    But overall I'd say the three most intricate throws excluding Yama Arashi which is the most are in this order:

    1. Uki Otoshi/Sumi Otoshi - as they require no contact. These are next to impossible and take the cake by a landslide. Hane Goshi - nobody does it right
    2. Hane Goshi - nobody does it right. A real Hane Goshi is hard to find. Most people learn it just to get a Shidan and then forget all about it and never touch it again. Shame as it's arguably the most beautiful Judo throw.
    3. Yama Arashi - because the popular saying goes, "No Yama Arashi before Saigo, none after". Also, it's NEVER done in competition.
     
  7. tinker_190

    tinker_190 Brown Belt

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    I can't really think of two others, but for sure Uchi Mata. The initial footwork to get inside complicates it, and like the TS, I have heard it explained multiple ways.
     
  8. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Yea Uchimata's a tall guys throw generally speaking. Doesn't mean you can't perfect it. Hane Goshi might work well for you. I'm an Uchi-Mata specialist. What problems are you having with it?
     
  9. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Well you have the two main Uchimatas. One is more of a hip throw where you step in deep and your rear right thigh sweeps up into their front right thigh/groin area. Then you have the one where your rear right thigh sweeps up into their inner left thigh/groin area (assuming you are a right handed thrower.) The 2nd version is much more difficult.

    As far as the entry. Dash straight in. Don't actually turn your back to them until you make chest-to-chest contact, while pulling them forward, then turn and face the same direction. Start with the hip, then raise the leg. BOOM! They're tossed like a biscuit. Does that help? Chest-to-chest first. Too many people turn to early.

    With Harai you can do a spin entry. With Uchimata, it's best to dash straight in.

    If you want to do the common 2 step entry, Bring your left leg around and place that foot in between their two feet, and worry less about stepping across to their right foot with your right foot. The support leg does ALL the work.
     
  10. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Actually, I've been taught the triangle choke, the armbar, and many other moves differently from different people in BJJ. It is the same in judo. One guy likes a lot of space in seoinage, another guy likes getting in and bumping the legs out. I think it is because everyone has different body types, flexibilities, strengths and sizes.

    I think the most complicated throw in all of judo is uchi mata. Everyone can do it, but everyone does it differently. Even though I'm not built to use it well, I practice it a lot so I can get better at the rest of my throws. It uses all the principles of judo. If you get one wrong then you fail the throw. However, working on uchi mata helps your perfect those principles, which like wise helps all your other throws. At least that's my theory. So it is also one of the most important throws in judo too.

    I think kouchi gari is the second most important throw. It is very much a throw of precision and timing. You need to hit it just right and at just the right time to sweep his feet out. Again, all the other sweeps - deashi barai, okuri ashi barai, etc - use this timing. While ouchi, osoto, and sasae are all moves where you bring his weight onto his foot, instead in kouchi and the sweeps you catch his foot and keep him moving. In essence, you keep him from planting his foot. This makes these throws very, very efficient. They also leave the opponent off-balanced if you don't get it, so you can use them to set up many other throws. Kouchi is probably the most common and easiest of them IMO. They really use the principle of "ju." So although they are conceptually simple, I think they take a lot of skill to feel them out.

    Besides uchi mata and kouchi gari, I don't know what would be the third most intricate throw.
     
  11. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Remember guys, although it may be tough to perfect, Uchimata earns more ippons than any other Judi throw. It's essential.


    UCHIMATA may be tough, but trust me, HANE GOSHI is 10x worse!!! The old saying is, "If you can do Hane, you deserve a Shodan."
     
  12. MonkeyNuts!

    MonkeyNuts! Rear Naked Poker

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    im a total judo noob but I have to agree with sode tsurikomi goshi - seems like there is alot going on with that throw
     
  13. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I just consider it as an Ogoshi/Koshi Guruma with a sleeve grip instead of a grip around the nexk. Maybe that helps? The right hand grips the seem right under their left elbow (assuming you're doing a right handed throw.)
     
  14. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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