Western Boxing & Muay Thai

[ssullivan80]

Need some advice:

I have spent several years training in muay thai and just recently during a 2 week long business trip I decided to go to a local boxing gym to get some workouts. Needless to say, I am very comfortable in my MT and can spar with most anyone and hold my own (with a few ass-whippings here and there). Anyhow, I had not been in a real "boxing gym" in about 3 years and learned really quick that I rely way to much on my legs. Sparring in the boxing gym, I got my ass handed to me day after day....... BAD!

Once I returned home I decided to start adding boxing to my training, problem I am having is I feel like my kicks are so much harder to execute, are way to telegraphed and much slower when I am using a more traditional boxing stance. Upside, my hands have really improved. What advice can you give for blending the two forms without feeling so awkward? Maybe it will just take more time? Anyhow, I definitely learned first hand (literally) why they call boxing "the sweet science".

HELP!!!!!

 

[ubboxer]

From what I've learned, in boxing there is the "amatuer" weight distribution of the stance and the "pro" weight distribution. The "amater being close to 50\50 or maybe as far towards the back as 70\30, whereas the "pro" stance puts a really substantial amount of weight on the back foot. I come from a similar background as you, a little bit different in that I boxed for a long time and then took up Muay Thai. I'd say learning to shift between the two weight distributions based on what mode of attack you're in would be the way to go... It's not as hard or crazy as it seems to learn to situationally sit down on your back leg a little bit harder or less hard depending on the context.

 

[ssullivan80]

From what I've learned, in boxing there is the "amatuer" weight distribution of the stance and the "pro" weight distribution. The "amater being close to 50\50 or maybe as far towards the back as 70\30, whereas the "pro" stance puts a really substantial amount of weight on the back foot. I come from a similar background as you, a little bit different in that I boxed for a long time and then took up Muay Thai. I'd say learning to shift between the two weight distributions based on what mode of attack you're in would be the way to go... It's not as hard or crazy as it seems to learn to situationally sit down on your back leg a little bit harder or less hard depending on the context.

Well put....... I definitely tend to be much heavier on my rear leg 60/40-70/30. I guess what makes me feel more akward in the boxing stance is that I am lower in my stance with my hands and elbows much tighter to my body Vs. MT I like to keep my feet a little closer and my elbows a little more distanced from my body, kicks are easier to throw off either leg and my rotation is better with elbows a little further out. In a boxing stance, i tend to stand up and bring my feet closer before kicking, feels more natural, problem is, it is much easier for my opponent to anticipate........ Hmmmmm! thank you for the advice!

 

[radman]

Remember despite similarities, when you box you box. When you do Muay Thai you do Muay Thai. Its like comparinga Lion and a tiger, same meat-eating cat, but different nature.:icon_chee

 

[NinjaKilla187]

Need some advice:

I have spent several years training in muay thai and just recently during a 2 week long business trip I decided to go to a local boxing gym to get some workouts. Needless to say, I am very comfortable in my MT and can spar with most anyone and hold my own (with a few ass-whippings here and there). Anyhow, I had not been in a real "boxing gym" in about 3 years and learned really quick that I rely way to much on my legs. Sparring in the boxing gym, I got my ass handed to me day after day....... BAD!

Once I returned home I decided to start adding boxing to my training, problem I am having is I feel like my kicks are so much harder to execute, are way to telegraphed and much slower when I am using a more traditional boxing stance. Upside, my hands have really improved. What advice can you give for blending the two forms without feeling so awkward? Maybe it will just take more time? Anyhow, I definitely learned first hand (literally) why they call boxing "the sweet science".

HELP!!!!!

I'm not sure you can do exactly what you are describing. To be able to throw kicks off either foot you generally have to keep feet about shoulder width apart and shoulders relatively square with the toes of your lead foot pointing straight. This will get your ass kicked in boxing because you are presenting a much bigger target and you can't shoulder roll at all. Bobbing and weaving are great in boxing but can you get creamed in any fight sport where you might be bobbing and weaving into knees and roundhouse kicks.

The stance and footwork are the big difference and adding kicks to the equation just plain changes everything. The punching is another story. There shouldn't be any problem throwing boxing punches in MT although you will likely find yourself throwing fewer hooks.

 

[IX Micheal XI]

My school teaches a blend of both. We alternate between stances pretty fluidly.

 

[icyblue17]

I know a lot of people who supplement their MT with boxing. But they told their boxing instructors that what they want is only to gain power behind the punches. So, basically, the instructor will not bother you about your stance etc etc.

 

[RJ Powell**]

Crosstraining in boxing is especially helpful for International/european/japanese rules Kickboxing. That is:
-No elbows
-Short clinch

K-1 type rules make it easier for you to use slick boxing combos/angles and actually bob n' weave, plus punches are actually scored pretty well in the international ruleset.

Unlike in muay thai, where punches are scored low, and clinching/knees/kicks(blocked or not), are scored high.

If you are planning on doing straight 100% muay thai rules with clinching & elbows and everything, i would just focus on punching drills that give you POWER behind your punches. And maybe basic countering. The rules kind of limit the punching.

From my experience, it is just too risky trying to employ classical boxing in Muay Thai, if you ever caught an elbow to the face, or had your punches smothered and locked in the clinch, you would know how devastating that is.

Pure muay thai is pretty much at the point where it is a complete art in terms of it's training and rules/competitions. It's more about standing upright and attacking or countering in rhythm instead of flambouyant footwork and head movement.

Watch a K-1 or European kickboxing fight, then watch an MT stadium fight and you will see what i mean.

Personally i prefer K-1, it is more exciting with the extra boxing flair. but i respect both rulesets.

---------

Also, if you plan on competing in MMA, it would help you ALOT to train in classic boxing thoroughly. Unlike kickboxing, which is highly specialized, MMA is a mixbag of different talents.

Meaning depending on your opponent, you could completely school him with your boxing prowess. And if i have learned anything in my training, it is that Pugilistic skills can take you very far in the MMA game, and fighting in general(simple self defense).

IMO MMA is where boxing shines, and kickboxing takes second place, mainly because of the takedown factor. If you have good hands, and are competent at defending kicks, then you'll go far.

Don't get me wrong though, kicks have they're place, but the "place" is just smaller in MMA compared to kickboxing. Take it or leave it, but from what i have seen, this is how it is. This is coming from a devout muay thai and kickboxing practicioner of many years.

good luck.

 

[RJ Powell**]

Remember despite similarities, when you box you box. When you do Muay Thai you do Muay Thai. Its like comparinga Lion and a tiger, same meat-eating cat, but different nature.:icon_chee

This is definitely true, especially with Muay thai and Boxing. Kickboxing has a little more room for interpretation though.

 

[Payak]

I have trained in Both for a long time,It feels strange throwing punches from a Muay Thai stance but in time it won't

 

[ubboxer]

double.

 

[ubboxer]

I'm not sure you can do exactly what you are describing. To be able to throw kicks off either foot you generally have to keep feet about shoulder width apart and shoulders relatively square with the toes of your lead foot pointing straight. This will get your ass kicked in boxing because you are presenting a much bigger target and you can't shoulder roll at all. Bobbing and weaving are great in boxing but can you get creamed in any fight sport where you might be bobbing and weaving into knees and roundhouse kicks.

The stance and footwork are the big difference and adding kicks to the equation just plain changes everything. The punching is another story. There shouldn't be any problem throwing boxing punches in MT although you will likely find yourself throwing fewer hooks.

I think if you were to totally exaggerate both stances, yes it would look like that. But theyre much closer than youre giving the credit for. You compromise between the two and you can get a lot into your striking game out of both of them. And honestly, in the real world, doing it right, how far does hour head really move when you bob and weave? 6 inches maybe. Not wanting to learn to utilize head movement just seems lazy, it will improve your game if you give it a chance and adapt it to the sport youre engaging in. Don't just dismiss it outright. A good part of combining the stances is going to be being active about it and using the parts that work when they work... Try SMALL head movement and level changing in your Muay Thai game, i promise if you give it an honest effort, you'l keep it.

The same goes for the footwork, having learned boxing first and then started Muay Thai, I wouldn't trade my boxing foot work for anything in the world, it will improve your game, and your ability to cut off the ring and control opponents. Combine that good footwork with kicking skills and you will dictate where the fight takes place with much more ease.

 

[IMAF#1]

Crosstraining in boxing is especially helpful for International/european/japanese rules Kickboxing. That is:
-No elbows
-Short clinch

K-1 type rules make it easier for you to use slick boxing combos/angles and actually bob n' weave, plus punches are actually scored pretty well in the international ruleset.

Unlike in muay thai, where punches are scored low, and clinching/knees/kicks(blocked or not), are scored high.

If you are planning on doing straight 100% muay thai rules with clinching & elbows and everything, i would just focus on punching drills that give you POWER behind your punches. And maybe basic countering. The rules kind of limit the punching.

From my experience, it is just too risky trying to employ classical boxing in Muay Thai, if you ever caught an elbow to the face, or had your punches smothered and locked in the clinch, you would know how devastating that is.

Pure muay thai is pretty much at the point where it is a complete art in terms of it's training and rules/competitions. It's more about standing upright and attacking or countering in rhythm instead of flambouyant footwork and head movement.

Watch a K-1 or European kickboxing fight, then watch an MT stadium fight and you will see what i mean.

Personally i prefer K-1, it is more exciting with the extra boxing flair. but i respect both rulesets.

---------

Also, if you plan on competing in MMA, it would help you ALOT to train in classic boxing thoroughly. Unlike kickboxing, which is highly specialized, MMA is a mixbag of different talents.

Meaning depending on your opponent, you could completely school him with your boxing prowess. And if i have learned anything in my training, it is that Pugilistic skills can take you very far in the MMA game, and fighting in general(simple self defense).

IMO MMA is where boxing shines, and kickboxing takes second place, mainly because of the takedown factor. If you have good hands, and are competent at defending kicks, then you'll go far.

Don't get me wrong though, kicks have they're place, but the "place" is just smaller in MMA compared to kickboxing. Take it or leave it, but from what i have seen, this is how it is. This is coming from a devout muay thai and kickboxing practicioner of many years.

good luck.

Couldnt of said it better my self.

 

[vangor]

Yep and this is all because the punch is the most versatile form of strike that you can throw. Anyway that's just my opinion at least.

 

[ssullivan80]

Crosstraining in boxing is especially helpful for International/european/japanese rules Kickboxing. That is:
-No elbows
-Short clinch

K-1 type rules make it easier for you to use slick boxing combos/angles and actually bob n' weave, plus punches are actually scored pretty well in the international ruleset.

Unlike in muay thai, where punches are scored low, and clinching/knees/kicks(blocked or not), are scored high.

If you are planning on doing straight 100% muay thai rules with clinching & elbows and everything, i would just focus on punching drills that give you POWER behind your punches. And maybe basic countering. The rules kind of limit the punching.

From my experience, it is just too risky trying to employ classical boxing in Muay Thai, if you ever caught an elbow to the face, or had your punches smothered and locked in the clinch, you would know how devastating that is.

Pure muay thai is pretty much at the point where it is a complete art in terms of it's training and rules/competitions. It's more about standing upright and attacking or countering in rhythm instead of flambouyant footwork and head movement.

Watch a K-1 or European kickboxing fight, then watch an MT stadium fight and you will see what i mean.

Personally i prefer K-1, it is more exciting with the extra boxing flair. but i respect both rulesets.

---------

Also, if you plan on competing in MMA, it would help you ALOT to train in classic boxing thoroughly. Unlike kickboxing, which is highly specialized, MMA is a mixbag of different talents.

Meaning depending on your opponent, you could completely school him with your boxing prowess. And if i have learned anything in my training, it is that Pugilistic skills can take you very far in the MMA game, and fighting in general(simple self defense).

IMO MMA is where boxing shines, and kickboxing takes second place, mainly because of the takedown factor. If you have good hands, and are competent at defending kicks, then you'll go far.

Don't get me wrong though, kicks have they're place, but the "place" is just smaller in MMA compared to kickboxing. Take it or leave it, but from what i have seen, this is how it is. This is coming from a devout muay thai and kickboxing practicioner of many years.

good luck.

Great advice...... I appreciate it. I have considered doing mma competition. To this point I have only competed in MT and Kickboxing. I have a long way to go on my ground game to be comfortable in an mma match, but the boxing is certainly helping and I have noticed a significant improvement in my takedown defense when I am using a boxing stance vs MT. Thanks again for good advice!

 

[ssullivan80]

I think if you were to totally exaggerate both stances, yes it would look like that. But theyre much closer than youre giving the credit for. You compromise between the two and you can get a lot into your striking game out of both of them. And honestly, in the real world, doing it right, how far does hour head really move when you bob and weave? 6 inches maybe. Not wanting to learn to utilize head movement just seems lazy, it will improve your game if you give it a chance and adapt it to the sport youre engaging in. Don't just dismiss it outright. A good part of combining the stances is going to be being active about it and using the parts that work when they work... Try SMALL head movement and level changing in your Muay Thai game, i promise if you give it an honest effort, you'l keep it.

The same goes for the footwork, having learned boxing first and then started Muay Thai, I wouldn't trade my boxing foot work for anything in the world, it will improve your game, and your ability to cut off the ring and control opponents. Combine that good footwork with kicking skills and you will dictate where the fight takes place with much more ease.

Well said! Boxing footwork is second to none.