Weightlifting classes before judo classes?

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I am starting to contemplate learning olympic weightlifting properly for a couple of good reasons. Turns out there is a good club in the vicinity of where I train judo. The only way to make this work on the logistics side is if I go weightlifting right before judo.

I don't intend to go balls to the wall with weightlifting. The judo classes right after weightlifting are more technical than hard-randori.

My intuition is that from a workload perspective, I could pull it off.

Does that sound like a shit idea, i.e. I will be so drained after weightlifting and my CNS so depleted that I'll just die during the moderate judo?

 

[vision1]

Try it out. I think you'd be fine.
If you're just learning the movements, stress will be very low.

 

[ChickenBrother]

As guy whose been trying to teach himself proper snatch form in his basement for over a year, I say 100% do it. Like you, I also train combat sports (BJJ) but I lift on my off-days, and have settled into a routine of working in snatches during my powerlifting 3x5 workouts.

Unlike powerlifting lifts, I don't think it's possible to ever get really clean form on snatches without in-person feedback from someone who knows what they're doing. It's probably the most technical barbell lift. Youtube videos will only get you so far. And starting out, it's much more about technique than weight. You will initially struggle to drop into a deep snatch with an empty bar overhead without falling over.

I'd recommend doing the weightlifting class for at least a month or two, and get a short PVC pipe to practice form at home. That should get your form to being "good enough" much faster than doing it on your own. Then you can decide if it's worth continuing the class but the initial investment will be worth the time and effort.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

As guy whose been trying to teach himself proper snatch form in his basement for over a year, I say 100% do it. Like you, I also train combat sports (BJJ) but I lift on my off-days, and have settled into a routine of working in snatches during my powerlifting 3x5 workouts.

Unlike powerlifting lifts, I don't think it's possible to ever get really clean form on snatches without in-person feedback from someone who knows what they're doing. It's probably the most technical barbell lift. Youtube videos will only get you so far. And starting out, it's much more about technique than weight. You will initially struggle to drop into a deep snatch with an empty bar overhead without falling over.

I'd recommend doing the weightlifting class for at least a month or two, and get a short PVC pipe to practice form at home. That should get your form to being "good enough" much faster than doing it on your own. Then you can decide if it's worth continuing the class but the initial investment will be worth the time and effort.

Thank you very much for the thoughts and that is exactly how I see this : an investment. I want to aquire proper technique right upon inception and I need a coach for that.

Given that I can't even do a full squat or overhead squat because of shit mobility, I am fine doing empty bar reps for the next 3 months and work my way up super slowly.

I think i ll give it a go.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Thank you very much for the thoughts and that is exactly how I see this : an investment. I want to aquire proper technique right upon inception and I need a coach for that.

Given that I can't even do a full squat or overhead squat because of shit mobility, I am fine doing empty bar reps for the next 3 months and work my way up super slowly.

I think i ll give it a go.

Yeah that's how I was when I started out. Oly lifting will increase your mobility for sure. They will probably have you work your way up with power cleans, front squats, power snatch, overhead squats, drop snatches and work up to the Oly lifts. But doing this under an instructor who will correct your mistakes is the way to go.

 

[mr.sandman]

As guy whose been trying to teach himself proper snatch form in his basement for over a year, I say 100% do it. Like you, I also train combat sports (BJJ) but I lift on my off-days, and have settled into a routine of working in snatches during my powerlifting 3x5 workouts.

Unlike powerlifting lifts, I don't think it's possible to ever get really clean form on snatches without in-person feedback from someone who knows what they're doing. It's probably the most technical barbell lift. Youtube videos will only get you so far. And starting out, it's much more about technique than weight. You will initially struggle to drop into a deep snatch with an empty bar overhead without falling over.

I'd recommend doing the weightlifting class for at least a month or two, and get a short PVC pipe to practice form at home. That should get your form to being "good enough" much faster than doing it on your own. Then you can decide if it's worth continuing the class but the initial investment will be worth the time and effort.

Just use dumbbell the training effect is same but tehnique 10x easier

 

[Fahcough]

until you're good at Oly lifting , it's not as taxing because the weight isn't much lol.
Breaking into pain face and heavy sweat with bands and an empty bar. The stretching feels amazing though.

 

[vision1]

Just use dumbbell the training effect is same but tehnique 10x easier

It's really not.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Well thanks all for the feedback. Went to said weightlifting club and talked to a trainer. Super chill dude, welcoming, said I can come try it out whenever I want. There is always a licensed weightlifting coach present and they seem very accommodating in terms of schedule.

I can't believe I found such an opportunity, tbh.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Just use dumbbell the training effect is same but tehnique 10x easier

It's really not.

I think you guys are both right. I feel like the training effect IS similar with a dumbbell or kettlebell but it's not quite the same and the required ROM is much less. I tried kettlebell snatches for the first time at a one-off crossfit session and was doing them at my work gym right before COVID lockdowns. They were definitely helping my explosion and guard passing in BJJ. Since then I've transitioned to a barbell in my basement. Much harder but my ROM has improved dramatically.

Sticking the bottom position with clean form (can't do it every time) feels effortless and f'ing awesome. @KBE6EKCTAH_CCP it's not quite as awesome but kind of like hitting a clean uchi mata in randori. Snatches for sure will make your takedowns more effective. Apparently they were a big part of Shohei Ono's training.

 

[mr.sandman]

How can rom be less, from the ground to overhead?

 

[mr.sandman]

It's really not.

If you snatch a heavy dumbbell overhead it trains power and explosiveness. Its not 100% same ofc but the movement and effect are practically same. With dumbell its power snatch, without the squat just a dip under the bell when you catch it

 

[Fahcough]

If you snatch a heavy dumbbell overhead it trains power and explosiveness. Its not 100% same ofc but the movement and effect are practically same. With dumbell its power snatch, without the squat just a dip under the bell when you catch it

can do more weight with DBs. Guessing because the mechanics are more forgiving.
Bar snatch , the struggle bus hits around 175#. But can rep 100# DB snatch.

Feels easier and more natural to dip under a single bell over both arms on bar.

 

[ChickenBrother]

If you snatch a heavy dumbbell overhead it trains power and explosiveness. Its not 100% same ofc but the movement and effect are practically same. With dumbell its power snatch, without the squat just a dip under the bell when you catch it

Dumbbell/kettlebell snatches are great and I enjoyed doing them when I used to go to a public gym. A lot of the benefits and a decent substitute if that's all you have access to. But the required ROM for barbell snatch is much greater. I've had to dramatically improve my shoulder, hip and ankle flexibility just to stick an empty bar snatch without falling over. Dumbbell snatch is much more forgiving and you could argue it's a lot of the juice for far less squeeze.

But you could make the same argument for power or hang barbell snatches (or power cleans) for athletes who don't want to invest the time to learn the full oly lifts. What makes the full version so challenging is the required explosion through the full ROM with both sides of the body loaded. Dumbbell snatches are easier partly because required flexion is less, but also because you're literally doing about half the weight. Snatch is a full body lift and your legs, hips, back, core are only having to bear a single dumbbell vs. a fully loaded barbell.

 

[gspieler]

I'm pretty sure the learning curve for Oly lifts is pretty high. Point being; you can probably spend months developing good technique, before the weights will even begin to impact doing MA after them. At some point, though, you may have to make adjustments in your intensity and/or volume.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

when i was training in a tech area, i would lift weights before bjj class. to me, felt like it simulated me being in a tournament more.

 

[vision1]

If you snatch a heavy dumbbell overhead it trains power and explosiveness. Its not 100% same ofc but the movement and effect are practically same. With dumbell its power snatch, without the squat just a dip under the bell when you catch it

I like dumbbell snatches but they’re still not the same. Good for beginners but very limiting for someone experienced.
And DB cleans are awful.

 

[mr.sandman]

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I didn't participate in derailing my own thread, but since my question was answered and I am going to try out weightlifting anyways, I have to say that I find it weird that anyone would think that dumbell snatches are a proxy for proper snatches.

Anyone and their cousin can do a dumbell snatch while I can't even snatch a broomstick. The mobility to snatch a loaded barbell properly is worlds apart.

From my perspective people learn Oly lifting also for the mobility development.

Lastly, I don't really give a lot of weight to Enamait's thoughts. The guy makes a living telling people that all you need is snatching dumbells and throwing medicine balls around. So he has a vested interest in people rejecting barbells.

 

[mr.sandman]

I agree with ross. Ofc oly.

I didn't participate in derailing my own thread, but since my question was answered and I am going to try out weightlifting anyways, I have to say that I find it weird that anyone would think that dumbell snatches are a proxy for proper snatches.

Anyone and their cousin can do a dumbell snatch while I can't even snatch a broomstick. The mobility to snatch a loaded barbell properly is worlds apart.

From my perspective people learn Oly lifting also for the mobility development.

Lastly, I don't really give a lot of weight to Enamait's thoughts. The guy makes a living telling people that all you need is snatching dumbells and throwing medicine balls around. So he has a vested interest in people rejecting barbells.

Well it comes down to what is the purpose of doing the lift. If youre a fighter and your purpose to train explosive power, the dumbbell snatch is a great option for that. There is nothing magical about barbells, you are snatching heavy weight overhead with a dumbbell, a snatch is a snatch. Its same as db or bb bench press. Ofcourse you can go heavier on a bb bench press, but db bench is still a very good exercise. But imagine if bb bench took alot skill to perform, then we could just do db bench and get very similar results. Same applies to snatching.

But if youre doing it for mobility, or because you like it or want to do it, there is nothing wrong with that. To me barbell snatch with heavy weight seems abit scary