Weighted pullups.

Chris Beeby

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I posed the question a while back about whether I should add weight to my pullups, and the question answered itself. The other day I tried to add just 5 pounds, and I, for the life of me, could not do it. I have trouble completing all 5 sets for all 5 reps with no weight, but I do try and do the full ROM. Since the only way to build progress is to add weight, and I simply cannot, would I benefit from doing pulldowns until I get past my own bodyweight? I know pulldowns aren't compound in that they don't use the core, but it's not my core that's the issue.

Just occured to me that I should have used the search function to look for any other weaklings with the same problem.
 
sound like you aren't ready for weight yet. i didn't start using weight till i could do the standard 3 sets of 10 reps. dont be afraid of high reps on pull ups, you need to mix it up.
 
Are you suggesting I just go to failure or something? 5 with the ENTIRE strict ROM gets hard.
 
Pulldowns are a compound lift it's just that it's not as good of an exercise as pull ups. Read up on closed vs open chain exercises using google or search for threads on here.

Try focusing on volume. Forget about 5x5 on pull ups. Mix it up. Do as many sets of 3s as u can handle with say 2-4 min rest between sets. or perhaps sets of 5. You can also try doing as many weighted singles as u can with 5-10 lb with 3-5 min rest between sets.
 
You can try one set once a week, leave one rep attempt in the tank until you hit 10 or 15, then add 5 lbs, repeat.
 
Hey man, I posted some info/methods on increasing pullup reps in your log (which is what I think you should do, not weighted or pulldowns).

Basically, I'd do 3 pullup days with:

1) 5 max effort sets (stopping 1 rep short of failure).

2) Pyramid (1-10-1, etc).

3) Synaptic facilitation ladder* (article below).

The Ladder
Alternate approach to synaptic facilitation delivers more volume in less time

In "A Small Experiment with Chin-ups" (article No. 49), I related how Pavel Tsatsouline’s "grease the groove" technique allowed me to do the most chin-ups I’d done since high school. By doing multiple sets of chin-ups spread out over the course of the day, several days a week, I was able to work up to 20 full-range chin-ups. The theory is called synaptic facilitation, which simply means doing frequent, non-exhaustive sets of a specific exercise to strengthen the nerve pathway. Bulgarian and Russian Olympic weightlifters have been using the method for years to beat the pants off the rest of the world. The problem is scheduling time to do many sets of an exercise throughout the day. It’s just not practical for most people.

That’s why I was excited to find an article by Pavel in the December 2000 issue of Milo magazine explaining "how to grease the groove on a tight schedule." He says it’s a method used by the Soviet Special Forces to meet the Spetsnaz requirement of 18 dead hang pull-ups wearing a 10-kilo (22 pound) bullet-proof vest. I tried it and it seems to work – with much less training time. It allowed me to reduce my chin-up sessions to one or two a day, and more then double my reps, while still staying fresh.

Here’s how Pavel describes the technique used by special forces personnel to work pull-ups into their busy classroom and training schedule: "We would file out to the pull-up bars and perform what we called ladders. I do a pull-up, you do one. I do two, you match me, etc. until one of us cannot keep up. Then, if we still had time, we started over. One rep, 2 reps, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,... 1,2,3,4,5. We totaled hundreds of pull-ups almost daily without burning out, and the extreme PT tests of our service were a breeze."

If you train alone, you can simply time your breaks by estimating how long it would take a partner to match your reps. That’s what I do, and it works fine. In fact, Pavel says it’s better that way, because "your odds of burning out are lower." To maximize volume without overtraining, you should stop each ladder one or two reps short of your limit. In other words, if you can work up to 10 reps at the top of the ladder, it’s best to stop at about 8, and then begin at 1 again. The non-competitive approach allows you to stop at a preset number that suits your capacity, not that of your partner.

The beauty of the technique is that you get a break each time you return to the bottom rung, which allows you to do more total reps. If you tried to do repeated limit sets or used the pyramid approach (1,2,3,4,5, 6,7,8,9,10, 9,8,7,6,5...), for example, fatigue would build much faster and volume would be compromised. As Pavel says, "The ladder, on the other hand, enables the strong man to grease the groove of his chosen feat with extraordinary volume."

I’ve found that to be true. During the experiment described in my earlier article, I generally did sets of 12 or 13, for about 50 total reps a day. Using the ladder technique, I can easily do 150 chin-ups in two sessions lasting a little over 15 minutes each, or occasionally in one session of about 35 minutes. ( I generally do chin-ups only two days a week, because I don’t want to interfere with my regular training sessions.) Ladders are obviously a more efficient use of one’s time, and they give your synapses plenty of work. As Pavel says, they allow more volume, without burnout, than any other structure.

I haven’t tried for a new PR, but if Pavel’s "high-volume plus specificity minus burnout" principle works as well as he says, it shouldn’t be long before I am doing more than 20 chin-ups or, better yet, working my way up to the Spetsnaz requirement of 18 chin-ups with a 10-kilo plate attached.
 
Hmmm.... I remember you saying that you could do 10 or so reps of pull-ups.... So how have things changed?

Also, If you mean that you're number of reps drop in LATER sets, you may not be getting enough rest, and you're probably training too close to failure.

When I used to do bodyweight pull-ups to failure, with only 1-2 minute rest... My sets looked like this.
12
7
5
4-5

Now I'll add up to 60 lbs but with a 5 min rest and I manage to easily hit 5 reps on all sets. So yeah....
Hope that helps.
 
sound like you aren't ready for weight yet. i didn't start using weight till i could do the standard 3 sets of 10 reps. dont be afraid of high reps on pull ups, you need to mix it up.

when i first tried weighted pull-ups, i was under 10 normal reps, but could do a set of 5 x 5 with 40 lbs and a one rep to 90lbs. Not that that is great, but i was a little surprised.
 
A couple of years ago, without having applied any special attention to doing so, I could bust out 40 chins at around 185lbs. I have no idea how that worked.
 
When I'm warmed up I can do about 10 of them, if I add 10 lbs I can do about 6. Sort of weak I guess.
But I'm about 155.
 
Hmmm.... I remember you saying that you could do 10 or so reps of pull-ups.... So how have things changed?

Also, If you mean that you're number of reps drop in LATER sets, you may not be getting enough rest, and you're probably training too close to failure.

I was cheating slightly, using a little legs a little and not quite going to a dead hang.

I keep thinking that that is what my problem is, but even though normally I'm a heavy clock watcher, with pullups and bench I rest untill I feel 100% fresh, and it doesn't help all that much.
 
Hey man, I posted some info/methods on increasing pullup reps in your log (which is what I think you should do, not weighted or pulldowns).

Basically, I'd do 3 pullup days with:

1) 5 max effort sets (stopping 1 rep short of failure).

2) Pyramid (1-10-1, etc).

3) Synaptic facilitation ladder* (article below).

The Ladder
Alternate approach to synaptic facilitation delivers more volume in less time

In "A Small Experiment with Chin-ups" (article No. 49), I related how Pavel Tsatsouline
 
If you can do no more than 5 pullups trying to do a given number of pullups in as many sets as you might need is a good idea. Like doing 20 pullups before every workout. NExt week 22 and so on.
 
Ladders are excellent for building endurance/volume...as is greasing groove appeoach....

You can also try alternating high intensity sets with higher repetition sets (1 set of 1-5 weighted reps then a short rest followed by a higher rep set)..

experiment to see what methods work best for you...
 
DEVILsSon is correct, the method he described also works. Basically, I have found with pullups that the best way to gain reps/strength is to constantly mix things up.
 
Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted on what works.
 
There are many different types of workouts you can do that incorporate pull-ups, but I will say this. Don't mess with pulldowns at all. Its a cheesy exercise in my opinion and it cracks me up when I see these meatheads in the gym doing pulldowns with massive amounts of weight but they can't even do five pull-ups with good form.

For the longest time (before I started adding weight) I did 3x3 of every different type of pull-up (palms forward/back/alternate, wide/medium/narrow hand spacing, pull-ups behind the neck etc.) and after a while of doing this I eventually build up to do 3 sets of 6 on all varieties. Eventually I got very good at just moving my own weight.

At that point I got more interested in weighted pull-ups (never considered them before) and with them I've found that 5x5 with a plain old palms forward medium grip is the best. If you do these maybe 2 days a week you'll find that you'll make good progress. Also, think about this, just because you can't do anymore wide-grip pull-ups doesn't mean you can't switch things up and still crack out some more narrow grip pull-ups.
 
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