Media Was Valentina dominating before she lost?

IngaVovchanchyn said:
OK, that makes more sense, but why would we ignore the entire submission event? It happened. And while I agree that Val was winning the 4th, I don;t think she was by much, and I think that had the two gone to a fifth round, it's very likely that the fight would have been even. Far from dominating, Shevchenko wasn't even winning.

I'm not trying to take away from Shevchenko. She did a lot of good work in the fight. But she was getting the worst of the striking overall, and her success on the ground was mainly stalling, especially in the third. To call that dominating is silly. It was a relatively even fight.
Click to expand...
Because the thread topic is "was Valentina dominating before the sub", so to contemplate that, we have to judge the incomplete 4th rd prior to the sub.

Val was winning the 4th prior to the sub.
 
CleverNameEh said:
Because the thread topic is "was Valentina dominating before the sub", so to contemplate that, we have to judge the incomplete 4th rd prior to the sub.

Val was winning the 4th prior to the sub.
Click to expand...

Disagree with disregarding the takedown, taking the back, and the sub attempt. The sequence as a whole happened, and is part of the fight. Had Val survived it, the fight probably would have been tied going into the fifth.

She certainly wasn't dominating, and it's likely she was not even winning that fight.
 
She will need to utilize more kicks in the rematch. All her leg kicks were hitting their mark but she barely used them
 
funksoulbrother said:
She will need to utilize more kicks in the rematch. All her leg kicks were hitting their mark but she barely used them
Click to expand...

As I understand it, Grasso's southpaw boxing was adopted with the intention of discouraging Shevchenko's usual kicking pattern and encouraging the spinning shit that brought about her downfall.
 
I would not say dominating at all. Alexa is the first woman to actually piece Shevchenko up a bit - at least that I can remember. Shevchenko’s striking is high level and her strongest asset. For her to have to resort to a grappling game in itself is enough evidence that she was not feeling comfortable in the striking department. Also, she really didn’t come close to any submissions, and didn’t have a whole lot of success in her GnP attempts…..
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
Disagree with disregarding the takedown, taking the back, and the sub attempt. The sequence as a whole happened, and is part of the fight. Had Val survived it, the fight probably would have been tied going into the fifth.

She certainly wasn't dominating, and it's likely she was not even winning that fight.
Click to expand...
That's not the topic at hand though. We're discussing the score PRIOR to the submission attempt, which in my mind at least, began at the back take sequence.

Up until THAT point, the score was 2-1 Val, and was on it's way to being 3-1 Val.

Obviously as soon as the back was takem that all changed, but PRIOR to that sequence, Val was winning, imo. Obviously NOT dominating, but fairly clearly winning, though close.
 
CleverNameEh said:
That's not the topic at hand though. We're discussing the score PRIOR to the submission attempt, which in my mind at least, began at the back take sequence.

Up until THAT point, the score was 2-1 Val, and was on it's way to being 3-1 Val.

Obviously as soon as the back was takem that all changed, but PRIOR to that sequence, Val was winning, imo. Obviously NOT dominating, but fairly clearly winning, though close.
Click to expand...
No we aren't lol, it's my thread. We're discussing whether Valentina was dominating the fight or if she simply made one mistake as she'd stated multiple times.

I agree, fight would be 2-2 heading into the 5th with the sub threat and control time. The striking differential wasn't high enough to secure the round when considering everything else that happened. Alexa would've been the one closest to finishing the fight, evidenced by the fact that she actually did, lol.
 
I don't know if people act or hate Val that much, but that was a pretty easy title defence until the sub of course. I already written this in like 2 thread but what the heck. Alexa got oustruck in EVERY ROUND (only the first one being close in significant strikes, Valentina still having more). She won the first one because of the good combination which leaves a good impression, even though she landed less significant strikes on full 14% less precision. That was the SMALLEST disadvantage she had in precision because every other round had 25 or more % precision advantage for Valentina. Then we have round 4, in which Alexa was quite obviously struggling to close the distance and Val was landing that jab however she wanted. In that round Val had more than 22-13 advantage in significant strikes and FULL 25% better precision od strikes which landed. So Alexa was casually getting oustruck in all 4 rounds (besides one where good land on the chin earned her a nod in close round), Valentina landing more and being MUCH MORE precise than Grasso through the whole fight, be it standing or ground-dominated round. Those are stats without grappling which was even more dominant.

So now I ask you, where did you guys see anything close to 2-2? First round was closer than the 4th... Alexa had 1-3 at best and was easily losing that fight by absolutely every metric. I know that it it crazy when someone has a close round or maybe manages to snatch one from Val, but Alexa was not close to winning that, until she won it lol so yeah congrats to her but she was not better anywhere. Crazy how much can one combo sway people into thinking they are watching something that is not happening at all.
 
drbolony said:
No we aren't lol, it's my thread. We're discussing whether Valentina was dominating the fight or if she simply made one mistake as she'd stated multiple times.

I agree, fight would be 2-2 heading into the 5th with the sub threat and control time. The striking differential wasn't high enough to secure the round when considering everything else that happened. Alexa would've been the one closest to finishing the fight, evidenced by the fact that she actually did, lol.
Click to expand...
Yes, and i answered that question. I said NO, she was not dominating.

I do think she was winning prior to getting submitted though. If she had survived the submission, yes, obviously it would be 2-2, but what I was discussing with someone else, was whether she was winning PRIOR to getting subbed.

Try to keep up. It's your thread, as you pointed out. You're slipping.
 
CleverNameEh said:
That's not the topic at hand though. We're discussing the score PRIOR to the submission attempt, which in my mind at least, began at the back take sequence.

Up until THAT point, the score was 2-1 Val, and was on it's way to being 3-1 Val.

Obviously as soon as the back was takem that all changed, but PRIOR to that sequence, Val was winning, imo. Obviously NOT dominating, but fairly clearly winning, though close.
Click to expand...

1. I am trying to discuss whether or not she was winning before she lost. She lost when she tapped. That doesn't negate getting taken down, or having her back taken, or having to fight off a deep sub attempt. What would have happened had Val fought off the sub and survived to the final round? If that question doesn't answer you, I might be the wrong person to be talking to.
2. Any time you discuss whether one fighter was winning if you take away all the good things the other fighter did, you're going to discover that they were.
3. I completely agree with you that Val was winning but not dominating at the start of the fourth. It was 2-1. I thought she was winning the fourth as well, but not by a big margin, before getting taken down, having her back taken, and having to fight off (unsuccessfully as it turned out) a dangerous sub attempt. Had the fourth finished, I think the judges would have weighed Grasso's success at the end of the round heavily and would likely have given her the round. Maybe not. Maybe it would have been 3-1. But I don;t think so. I think we'd have entered a hypothetical fifth round dead even.
 
IngaVovchanchyn said:
1. I am trying to discuss whether or not she was winning before she lost. She lost when she tapped. That doesn't negate getting taken down, or having her back taken, or having to fight off a deep sub attempt. What would have happened had Val fought off the sub and survived to the final round? If that question doesn't answer you, I might be the wrong person to be talking to.
2. Any time you discuss whether one fighter was winning if you take away all the good things the other fighter did, you're going to discover that they were.
3. I completely agree with you that Val was winning but not dominating at the start of the fourth. It was 2-1. I thought she was winning the fourth as well, but not by a big margin, before getting taken down, having her back taken, and having to fight off (unsuccessfully as it turned out) a dangerous sub attempt. Had the fourth finished, I think the judges would have weighed Grasso's success at the end of the round heavily and would likely have given her the round. Maybe not. Maybe it would have been 3-1. But I don;t think so. I think we'd have entered a hypothetical fifth round dead even.
Click to expand...
I follow ya.

It all depends on what point we're considering the stopping point in our "prior to the sub" evaluation.
 
CleverNameEh said:
Yes, and i answered that question. I said NO, she was not dominating.

I do think she was winning prior to getting submitted though. If she had survived the submission, yes, obviously it would be 2-2, but what I was discussing with someone else, was whether she was winning PRIOR to getting subbed.

Try to keep up. It's your thread, as you pointed out. You're slipping.
Click to expand...
Word, you got me there. I misread, thought you said that was what the thread was about to bail yourself out.
 
Wonderfight said:
I don't know if people act or hate Val that much, but that was a pretty easy title defence until the sub of course. I already written this in like 2 thread but what the heck. Alexa got oustruck in EVERY ROUND (only the first one being close in significant strikes, Valentina still having more). She won the first one because of the good combination which leaves a good impression, even though she landed less significant strikes on full 14% less precision. That was the SMALLEST disadvantage she had in precision because every other round had 25 or more % precision advantage for Valentina. Then we have round 4, in which Alexa was quite obviously struggling to close the distance and Val was landing that jab however she wanted. In that round Val had more than 22-13 advantage in significant strikes and FULL 25% better precision od strikes which landed. So Alexa was casually getting oustruck in all 4 rounds (besides one where good land on the chin earned her a nod in close round), Valentina landing more and being MUCH MORE precise than Grasso through the whole fight, be it standing or ground-dominated round. Those are stats without grappling which was even more dominant.

So now I ask you, where did you guys see anything close to 2-2? First round was closer than the 4th... Alexa had 1-3 at best and was easily losing that fight by absolutely every metric. I know that it it crazy when someone has a close round or maybe manages to snatch one from Val, but Alexa was not close to winning that, until she won it lol so yeah congrats to her but she was not better anywhere. Crazy how much can one combo sway people into thinking they are watching something that is not happening at all.
Click to expand...
I don't hate Valentina, she was my favorite WMMA fighter until recently and always had her above Nunes in P4P talks because her skill set translated divisions, and allowed her to beat larger women comfortably. She even had an easier time finishing Pena than Amanda did, and in her strongest area.

That said, the way fights are judged has changed, the commentators won't shut up about it, specifically Dom Cruz. Alexa was landing the visibly harder shots and she hurt Shev in the first, so despite striking numbers, she won on damage. Val would have had to have been up significantly on the numbers to secure the first, bit the difference was 2, with Alexa landing the more significant blows. She steals the round. Val easily took 2 and 3 with control time. In the 4th she was up by 8 strikes, but Alexa had a sub attempt and would have most likely at the very least controlled her on the ground for the remaining minute. 2-2 is a draw, no domination by Shev.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,280,889
Messages
58,325,686
Members
176,001
Latest member
Markooz86

Share this page

Back
Top