War Room Lounge v69: Oh no not the bees! Edition

[Andy Capp]

LOL no. Are you fucking serious?

The conservative movement has made all the gravest attacks on the First, Fourth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments: they opposed the initial invocation of First Amendment rights, jailed various groups for political speech, sought to censor major media institutions, and regularly contravened rights against search and seizure under Nixon, Reagan, and GWB, variously asserting that the government interest in preventing crime, dissent, etc. outweighed the Fourth Amendment rights of accused persons. The American conservative movement has never been more constitutionalist or libertarian than the left.

I guess the dude forgets who around here supported Stop and Frisk or which recent president went on the record in favor of bringing it back.

 

[waiguoren]

Hey, let's hear what a loony CTer, former Congressman, and dyed-in-the-wool partisan has to say about expanding democracy. It's bad, I bet.

Hey, lets ignore information that doesn't fit our tribalist narrative and attack the messenger to boot.

The conservative movement has made all the gravest attacks on the First, Fourth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments

Define: conservative movement.

 

[Falsedawn]

I guess the dude forgets who around here supported Stop and Frisk or which recent president went on the record in favor of bringing it back.

Nah man, all of those were left wingers. Right wingers would have defended the Constitution.

For future reference:
Bad = Left
Good = Right

I hope that cleared it up for you. Now to go find some good people at my local white supremacist rally, as one is wont to do.

 

[Jack V Savage]

This is me: conservatism is to maintain the status Quo aka Classical liberalism if we are following the dictionary definition of conservatism

This is @Jack V Savage @Falsedawn @Fawlty @Trotsky : So what you're saying is modern day right wingers are upholding classical liberalism even though they are not and are just authoritarian assholes!

Me: No

You guys: WELL YOU ARE ANY WAYS

mek

I understand your argument, and I've made it clear that my objection is mainly that it's too simplistic (maintaining the status quo isn't the sole definition of conservatism, and classical liberalism isn't a good definition of the status quo in America) and that it doesn't apply to the real world (the right in America has never been about defending the status quo as defined as "classical liberalism").

@waiguoren, since you "liked" this, why not weigh in?

 

[Trotsky]

Define: conservative movement.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Hey, lets ignore information that doesn't fit our tribalist narrative and attack the messenger to boot.


Define: conservative movement.

They actually can't. With them it's "but authoritarianism.... Hitler.... Mussolini oh my!"

 

[Jack V Savage]

Hey, lets ignore information that doesn't fit our tribalist narrative and attack the messenger to boot.

What information do you think I'm ignoring? What is my tribalist narrative?

And do you deny that Chaffetz is a CT nutter who is an unreliable source of information? I can give you some examples of deceptive practices from him if you do.

 

[Jack V Savage]

They actually can't. With them it's "but authoritarianism.... Hitler.... Mussolini oh my!"

You're the one who has resisted that, insisting that the movement is irrelevant and that you only want to discuss your private definition of "American Conservatism" that doesn't reflect the views of American conservatives.

 

[Fawlty]

Got into a nasty political argument yesterday at the water slides with some dude. Long story short, I accused him of employing the "No True Whigs" fallacy and he called me a cuckold. So I slapped his five year old son across the face and made my escape down the "Dooming Vvrooming."

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

You're the one who has resisted that, insisting that the movement is irrelevant and that you only want to discuss your private definition of "American Conservatism" that doesn't reflect the views of American conservatives.

You are taking a 200 year old Eurocentric view of what conservatism was in Europe and applying it to America. I assure you I'm not the one here using a private definition.

Got into a nasty political argument yesterday at the water slides with some dude. Long story short, I accused him of employing the "No True Whigs" fallacy and he called me a cuckold. So slapped his five year old son across the face and made my escape down the "Dooming Vvrooming."

Comedy was never your thing.

 

[Higus]

Nothing is stopping you from having that conversation. The leap is something you make and ask me. The GOP does things that i cannot stand and has me fundamentally at odds with them.

If you haven't noticed though i have the entire left wing of sherdog having a meltdown because im reminding them of their own tradition (aka conservatism)

meh, count me out of the melt-down. Your game is obvious and desperate use of the non-central fallacy. No one with a shred of honesty that has paid attention to the last 50 years is going to be fooled by it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You are taking a 200 year old Eurocentric view of what conservatism was in Europe and applying it to America. I assure you I'm not the one here using a private definition.

I think this might go to the heart of your error, actually. You're treating "conservatism," which is a specific ideology, as being synonymous with "rightism," which refers to a group of ideologies.

 

[Higus]

The GOP does things that i cannot stand and has me fundamentally at odds with them.

Out of curiosity, what are some of those things?

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

meh, count me out of the melt-down. Your game is obvious and desperate use of the non-central fallacy. No one with a shred of honesty that has paid attention to the last 50 years is going to be fooled by it.

I'm so lost. You come in asking to funnel efforts in a positive direction and then opt out of it wh

I think this might go to the heart of your error, actually. You're treating "conservatism," which is a specific ideology as being synonymous with "rightism," which refers to a group of ideologies.

No.

 

[Higus]

I'm so lost. You come in asking to funnel efforts in a positive direction and then opt out of it wh

I gave up on this exchange before it began, tbh.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

I gave up on this exchange before it began, tbh.

Saves us both time.

 

[waiguoren]

They actually can't. With them it's "but authoritarianism.... Hitler.... Mussolini oh my!"

Believe me, Mr. El. I am more than familiar with the intense tribalism and pseudo-intellectualism that characterizes the majority of the regular posters here. That's why I come here: to observe cognitive failure in real time.

I mean, just look at the response of the delightful Mr. Trot:

Define: conservative movement.

 

[Jack V Savage]

No.

So you acknowledge that one can be on the right and not conservative, and that there are ideologies to the right of conservatism?

 

[Trotsky]

Believe me, Mr. El. I am more than familiar with the intense tribalism and pseudo-intellectualism that characterizes the majority of the regular posters here. That's why I come here: to observe cognitive failure in real time.

I mean, just look at the response of the delightful Mr. Trot:

That picture was to signal that you're sealioning and I have no interest in indulging you.

 

[waiguoren]

That picture was to signal that you're sealioning and I have no interest in indulging you.

Define: sealioning.