War Room Lounge V26: Neoliberal Clicks

[Jack V Savage]

Batman is a hard nut to crack. I like Burton's for it's comic book realization, and I like Nolan's for it's hyper realism. Both can be criticized for following those paths, though. Burton's is shallow, and Nolan's is a so deep that it gets kind of ridiculous.

Disagree that Burton's are shallow and that Nolan's are deep. And Nolan definitely shot for physical plausibility in the first one (Burton shot for more psychological plausibility), but it's still pretty ridiculous. The second one was ridiculously implausible in every way and a total mess of a movie.

 

[Lead]

To an extent. With the vibe, I hear ya. You got all these other cartoon shows that are way more in your face, and then "Bob's Burgers" is just there, doing the opposite of what the other shows are doing. It slows everything down, and it clashes with the others.

That said, I blame the misunderstanding of what "King of The Hill" was, on the age demographic it was trying to reach at the time. I couldn't really understand why older people liked it. They got that it was essentially a live action sitcom in cartoon form, and went with it. All I saw was a "not The Simpsons". Now I can appreciate it for what it is, and look at it differently than when I was 14 or whatever. It's a brilliantly written show, and the jokes click now, whereas back in the day, I wanted something more immediate that resembled what I was familiar with.

With "Bob's Burgers", it's just bland to me. I don't see the humor. It's not an age thing, either. It's just bleh. I've given it that "King of the Hill" chance, where I'm thinking maybe I just don't get it, but nope. It's just bores the shit out of me.

To each their own though. Comedy is one of those things that just can't be defined.

I liked it for awhile but haven't seen it for probably a few seasons now. The comparison is mostly because of the comparison of Bob and Hank. Both very bland run of the mill dads that get presented with slightly off situations that set them off. Their discomfort somehow makes a comedic effect.

To sum it up in gif form:


I agree it's different from most of the other adult cartoons out there currently. I never had it as my top show in that category. South Park always will be GOAT (though the past few seasons haven't been good and you can really tell they wanted to stop but continued for the money like they admitted) and other shows like Archer are probably still my go to.

 

[HereticBD]

Disagree that Burton's are shallow and that Nolan's are deep.

That's kind of my point, I guess. Burton's films are shallow, but when you say it like that, it sounds like you're ripping it apart, and not appreciating the little touches that brought the whole production to life. Nolan's films on the other hand, get way too much credit in the other direction, to the point that when you hear it, you cringe a little bit.

Meh. I love them all equally(B1, BB, TDK), and I've had these discussions way too much to indulge here.

 

[senri]

Cannibal corpse is coming here in February. Keep forgetting to grab some tickets. Need to get on that

 

[irish_thug]

FWIW, best or second-best Batman movie ever (rivalled by Batman Begins). Batman Returns would be third. Burton is very good.

Best imo.

 

[HereticBD]

I agree it's different from most of the other adult cartoons out there currently. I never had it as my top show in that category. South Park always will be GOAT (though the past few seasons haven't been good and you can really tell they wanted to stop but continued for the money like they admitted) and other shows like Archer are probably still my go to.

I think South Park, despite having a few misses here and there, is still shockingly consistent, given how far into it's run it is. Some gags are gettin' old, but they can still write a damn good episode.

As for Archer, those motherfucker's need to get back to basics. I liked the noir season enough, but "Danger Island" never really clicked, and I'd prefer them to stop experimenting, and go back to the spy stuff.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

You know what movie gets a lot of love but actually really sucks? Batman (1989) by Tim Burton.

The story is idiotic and incoherent and the direction is just bad. In fact, for that matter, Tim Burton sucks in general. All of his movies are terrible.

You just take offense to it suggesting you should never rub another mans rhubarb

 

[Lead]

I think South Park, despite having a few misses here and there, is still shockingly consistent, given how far into it's run it is. Some gags are gettin' old, but they can still write a damn good episode.

As for Archer, those motherfucker's need to get back to basics. I liked the noir season enough, but "Danger Island" never really clicked, and I'd prefer them to stop experimenting, and go back to the spy stuff.

The start of that show was just poop jokes and wasn't that funny but pretty quickly it because the best satire for a show I've seen. The jokes to society were always spot on imo and they were good at finding ways to keep it funny to either political leaning. There's a season where the ending is Stan is diagnosed for being a cynical asshole and his parents move away from South Park. Happens as the finale and was meant to be the last episode and kinda a joke on the writers. But then Comedy Central offered them a shit ton of money and they stayed on board. They change the concept of a season to have continuity and I think that's hurt the show a lot since. Because they are making the episodes so close to air, when you do continuity, the events that play out could fuck up the storyline. When you keep it to a single episode, you can make the concise point/joke you wanted to and move on. I wish they would move back to that again.

I'm a season and a half behind I think on Archer. It is interesting they just decided to change the setting and identity of the characters from season to season. They must've been getting bored. I never really found the setting or storyline as important for that show however. Most of the scenes are the team getting completely off task and rambling on back and forth at each other. It's that dialogue that's hilarious and usually doesn't need much of a backdrop to be used.

M AS IN MANCY!

 

[Trotsky]

FWIW, best or second-best Batman movie ever (rivalled by Batman Begins). Batman Returns would be third. Burton is very good.

How the hell did a piece of scotch tape find its way to my asscrack? Eh, mysteries.



Oh no. Do not let Fawlty see this post.

Oh god.

Saying Tim Burton's Batman is better than The Dark Knight is an opinion so facially ludicrous that it's hard for me to believe that you're not trying to fuck with me. The Dark Knight is superior in every possible way: much better writing, much better direction, much better acting, much better effects, much better locations and sets.

1. The Dark Knight - 10/10
2. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm: 9.5/10
3. Batman: Under the Red Hood - 8.5/10
4. Batman Begins - 8/10
5. Batman: Year One - 7.5/10
6. The Dark Knight Rises - 7/10
7. Batman: Subzero - 7/10
8. Batman: The Killing Joke: 5/10
9. Batman (1989): 4/10
10. Batman (1966): 3/10
11. Batman Forever: 3/10
12. Batman Returns: 3/10
13. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns: 2/10
14. Batman & Robin: 1/10

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's kind of my point, I guess. Burton's films are shallow, but when you say it like that, it sounds like you're ripping it apart, and not appreciating the little touches that brought the whole production to life. Nolan's films on the other hand, get way too much credit in the other direction, to the point that when you hear it, you cringe a little bit.

The way I see it, Nolan is answering the question "assuming someone wanted to, how would he become Batman," while Burton is answering, "assuming it's possible, what kind of person would want to be Batman." That's deeper, and more interesting, IMO. Though Batman Begins was a ton of fun, too.

Meh. I love them all equally(B1, BB, TDK), and I've had these discussions way too much to indulge here.

Fair enough.

 

[HereticBD]

The start of that show was just poop jokes and wasn't that funny but pretty quickly it because the best satire for a show I've seen. The jokes to society were always spot on imo and they were good at finding ways to keep it funny to either political leaning. There's a season where the ending is Stan is diagnosed for being a cynical asshole and his parents move away from South Park. Happens as the finale and was meant to be the last episode and kinda a joke on the writers. But then Comedy Central offered them a shit ton of money and they stayed on board. They change the concept of a season to have continuity and I think that's hurt the show a lot since. Because they are making the episodes so close to air, when you do continuity, the events that play out could fuck up the storyline. When you keep it to a single episode, you can make the concise point/joke you wanted to and move on. I wish they would move back to that again.

I don't know. Didn't they just start doing the whole "continuing story line" thing a couple years ago? I haven't really been "into it" since...I guess season 14? I've tuned in here and there, and that aspect didn't really hit me until the whole Trump thing. I think that's around season 18. I don't know. I'm just going off of the episodes I've checked out on demand. The later seasons still seem to have it's stand alone stuff.

I'm a season and a half behind I think on Archer. It is interesting they just decided to change the setting and identity of the characters from season to season. They must've been getting bored.

One word: ISIS.

That must've really fucked them up.

M AS IN MANCY!

LOL.

 

[Andy Capp]

To an extent. With the vibe, I hear ya. You got all these other cartoon shows that are way more in your face, and then "Bob's Burgers" is just there, doing the opposite of what the other shows are doing. It slows everything down, and it clashes with the others.

That said, I blame the misunderstanding of what "King of The Hill" was, on the age demographic it was trying to reach at the time. I couldn't really understand why older people liked it. They got that it was essentially a live action sitcom in cartoon form, and went with it. All I saw was a "not The Simpsons". Now I can appreciate it for what it is, and look at it differently than when I was 14 or whatever. It's a brilliantly written show, and the jokes click now, whereas back in the day, I wanted something more immediate that resembled what I was familiar with.

With "Bob's Burgers", it's just bland to me. I don't see the humor. It's not an age thing, either. It's just bleh. I've given it that "King of the Hill" chance, where I'm thinking maybe I just don't get it, but nope. It's just bores the shit out of me.

To each their own though. Comedy is one of those things that just can't be defined.

Back off! Get yer own dann purse.

 

[irish_thug]

I don't know. Didn't they just start doing the whole "continuing story line" thing a couple years ago? I haven't really been "into it" since...I guess season 14? I've tuned in here and there, and that aspect didn't really hit me until the whole Trump thing. I think that's around season 18. I don't know. I'm just going off of the episodes I've checked out on demand. The later seasons still seem to have it's stand alone stuff.



One word: ISIS.

That must've really fucked them up.



LOL.

The rise of ISIS gave birth to the rise of cocaine Pam.

 

[Fawlty]

You know what movie gets a lot of love but actually really sucks? Batman (1989) by Tim Burton.

The story is idiotic and incoherent and the direction is just bad. In fact, for that matter, Tim Burton sucks in general. All of his movies are terrible.

Beetlejuice, dude.

The thing about Batman that really doesn't hold up is the sound editing, especially the foley work. Funny enough it sounded fine at the time and excellent in the theater. I have no problem with the story or the choices of the actors. I thought everyone in the film was good. I'd say it was good enough that it comes down to taste. I prefer the Nicholson Joker by quite a bit. I didn't care for him being played as an incel in TDK and I didn't find the role convincing at all. That's completely separate from acknowledging Ledger's amazing performance, by the way. He put all kinds of great lipstick on that pig.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Oh god.

Saying Tim Burton's Batman is better than The Dark Knight is an opinion so facially ludicrous that it's hard for me to believe that you're not trying to fuck with me. The Dark Knight is superior in every possible way: much better writing, much better direction, much better acting, much better effects, much better locations and sets.

1. The Dark Knight - 10/10
2. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm: 9.5/10
3. Batman: Under the Red Hood - 8.5/10
4. Batman Begins - 8/10
5. Batman: Year One - 7.5/10
6. The Dark Knight Rises - 7/10
7. Batman: Subzero - 7/10
8. Batman: The Killing Joke: 5/10
9. Batman (1989): 4/10
10. Batman (1966): 3/10
11. Batman Forever: 3/10
12. Batman Returns: 3/10
13. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns: 2/10
14. Batman & Robin: 1/10

For a guy who disliked the sopranos, you reference critic scores a lot

 

[HereticBD]

For a guy you disliked the sopranos, you reference critic scores a lot

*who

 

[Trotsky]

Beetlejuice, dude.

The thing about Batman that really doesn't hold up is the sound editing, especially the foley work. Funny enough it sounded fine at the time and excellent in the theater. I have no problem with the story or the choices of the actors. I thought everyone in the film was good. I'd say it was good enough that it comes down to taste. I prefer the Nicholson Joker by quite a bit. I didn't care for him being played as an incel and I didn't find the role convincing at all. That's completely separate from acknowledging Ledger's amazing performance, by the way. He put all kinds of great lipstick on that pig.

I literally hate you. Ledger's Joker was not an incel: he was a terrorist driven by the same cynical philosophy found by the comic books Joker. Nicholson's was just a thug with the social characteristics of a five year-old that wanted to, for some unknown reason and through many unexplained methods, mass murder people for...being slaves to commercialism?

For a guy you disliked the sopranos, you reference critic scores a lot

Critic scores? Those were my own ratings.

Also, I didn't say the Sopranos was bad. I just didn't like it all. The only episodes that I enjoyed and/or found impressive were the one in the woods and the one with the talking fish.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Oh god.

Saying Tim Burton's Batman is better than The Dark Knight is an opinion so facially ludicrous that it's hard for me to believe that you're not trying to fuck with me. The Dark Knight is superior in every possible way: much better writing, much better direction, much better acting, much better effects, much better locations and sets.

I'm really not. I was comparing it to BB because TDK isn't really in the conversation IMO. I grant that more money was spent on it, and it was made when we'd had some technological advancements, but in terms of story and characters, it's not a fair comparison. I'll go into it in more detail later.

 

[Sketch]

Since we're talking movies. The actor who played Kylo ren was a miscast in Star Wars. I would have been a better actor, and I'm serious.

 

[Fawlty]

I literally hate you. Ledger's Joker was not an incel: he was a terrorist driven by the same cynical philosophy found by the comic books Joker. Nicholson's was just a thug with the social characteristics of a five year-old that wanted to, for some unknown reason and through many unexplained methods, mass murder people for...being slaves to commercialism?



Critic scores? Those were my own ratings.

Also, I didn't say the Sopranos was bad. I just didn't like it all. The only episodes that I enjoyed and/or found impressive were the one in the woods and the one with the talking fish.

He had the same attitude as every stupid little alt right punk today. Probably had a major negative influence on them too. Chicken or the egg? You could give credit for using the Batman franchise as a sneaky way to completely fuck up the next generation, I suppose, though that probably wasn't the intent.

That villain could have been a lot better in another story, but not Batman. I just don't buy it.

I don't get your complaint about the Nicholson motive. It wasn't an attack on capitalism, products were just the vector and consumerism the weak point. He was the head of a crime family, and yes a thug, who happened to be crazy and vengeful.