War Room Lounge V24: Mental Illness

[Jack V Savage]

Its seems like it was coming from the left before and now its coming from the right and the opposition has predictably shifted along with it.

Any real examples? I don't recall anything like that coming from the left, and it's inherently not left-wing.

I think what confuses people here is that they haven't noticed that right-wing liberals have gone from controlling the GOP to taking a backseat in it to more recently abandoning it.

 

[Ruprecht]

Any real examples? I don't recall anything like that coming from the left, and it's inherently not left-wing.

I think what confuses people here is that they haven't noticed that right-wing liberals have gone from controlling the GOP to taking a backseat in it to more recently abandoning it.

Maybe he's confusing treating the Internet as a public utility with treating social media as a public utility.
The only real hypocrisy I've seen on the issue has been mindless cut and pasting in support Pai's position on not making internet access a public utility, followed by mindless cut and pasting of a call for social media to be a public utility.
That's just blog and social media responses though.
Actual key figures in the public debate (like Pai) haven't been that inconsistent that I've seen, although they've come close.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Maybe he's confusing treating the Internet as a public utility with treating social media as a public utility.
The only real hypocrisy I've seen on the issue has been mindless cut and pasting in support Pai's position on not making internet access a public utility, followed by mindless cut and pasting of a call for social media to be a public utility.
That's just blog and social media responses though.
Actual key figures in the public debate (like Pai) haven't been that inconsistent that I've seen, although they've come close.

I'm behind on that (and the issue generally). I'm barely even familiar with Pai. Any recommended links?

 

[Ruprecht]

I'm behind on that (and the issue generally). I'm barely even familiar with Pai. Any recommended links?

I've only paid attention to the technical aspects and potential international impacts, but there were certainly calls from Left wing activists to make the internet a public utility which used the "free speech" argument.
The basis for "internet as a utility" was the court decision supported by the Obama administration that laid out the basis for net neutrality. Pai dismantled it.
From a technical perspective though, treating the internet as a utility makes a lot more sense because it's infrastructure very similar to power or water, whereas social media and other online applications aren't. Although that's certainly been argued.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I've only paid attention to the technical aspects and potential international impacts, but there were certainly calls from Left wing activists to make the internet a public utility which used the "free speech" argument.
The basis for "internet as a utility" was the court decision supported by the Obama administration that laid out the basis for net neutrality. Pai dismantled it.
From a technical perspective though, treating the internet as a utility makes a lot more sense because it's infrastructure very similar to power or water, whereas social media and other online applications aren't.

Thanks. Interesting stuff, and, yeah, Anung is badly misinterpreting it if that's what he was thinking of.

 

[Ruprecht]

Thanks. Interesting stuff, and, yeah, Anung is badly misinterpreting it if that's what he was thinking of.

It was Bannon that popularised the idea of treating social media as a utility last year.
When it first emerged 8 years ago, it wasn't so popular.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Maybe he's confusing treating the Internet as a public utility with treating social media as a public utility.
The only real hypocrisy I've seen on the issue has been mindless cut and pasting in support Pai's position on not making internet access a public utility, followed by mindless cut and pasting of a call for social media to be a public utility.
That's just blog and social media responses though.
Actual key figures in the public debate (like Pai) haven't been that inconsistent that I've seen, although they've come close.

Not confusing the internet with social networking, they have both been the subject of the public utility debate.
This debate has been going on for the last 7-10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_as_a_public_utility

The Danger Of Making Facebook, LinkedIn, Google And Twitter Public Utilities
from 2011
https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankm...-facebook-there-is-a-better-way/#227784d27fc9


Hold social media accountable

& @BAM it may seem like the right is spurring this on at the moment due to Alex Jones, but the left was fully behind it the last couple of years because of "Russia spreading fake news" on social media.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Any real examples? I don't recall anything like that coming from the left, and it's inherently not left-wing.

I think what confuses people here is that they haven't noticed that right-wing liberals have gone from controlling the GOP to taking a backseat in it to more recently abandoning it.

inherently not left wing? How do you figure? Is the left pro-monopolies? Because that is one of the biggest part of the debate.
Are the left anti-regulation? Because that is another huge aspect of the conversation. Are the left pro-fake news? Because, again, that is another huge part of this conversation.

 

[Clippy]

What's going on in this room?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

It was Bannon that popularised the idea of treating social media as a utility last year.
When it first emerged 8 years ago, it wasn't so popular.

He popularized it at essentially the same time Elizabeth Warren did....

'From heroes to villains': tech industry faces bipartisan backlash in Washington

 

[Anung Un Rama]

What's going on in this room?

Get out of here and go campaign! I voted for you damn it!

 

[Ruprecht]

Not confusing the internet with social networking, they have both been the subject of the public utility debate.
This debate has been going on for the last 7-10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_as_a_public_utility

The Danger Of Making Facebook, LinkedIn, Google And Twitter Public Utilities
from 2011
https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankm...-facebook-there-is-a-better-way/#227784d27fc9


Hold social media accountable

& @BAM it may seem like the right is spurring this on at the moment due to Alex Jones, but the left was fully behind it the last couple of years because of "Russia spreading fake news" on social media.

Where was "leftist support" for treating the social media as a utility?
Bannon brought it up again last year and from there it did the rounds of the right-wing blogosphere.
The Forbes article says Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren wanted social media regulated, not that they wanted it treated like a utility. Forbes is being consistent in their support for deregulation. Michael Sandel in your Seattle Times article is a Republican.

 

[Ruprecht]

He popularized it at essentially the same time Elizabeth Warren did....

'From heroes to villains': tech industry faces bipartisan backlash in Washington

Warren called for regulation, not under a public utility metaphor. She described them as acting monopolistic in the same way as Microsoft had. No one said Microsoft should be treated as a public utiltiy. It's an inappropriate framework/metaphor because it's not infrastructure.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Where was "leftist support" for treating the social media as a utility?
Bannon brought it up again last year and from there it did the rounds of the right-wing blogosphere.
The Forbes article says Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren wanted social media regulated, not that they wanted it treated like a utility. Forbes is being consistent in their support for deregulation. Michael Sandel in your Seattle Times article is a Republican.

The left is much more fractured than the right. If the right wants to get a message out like "Iraq has WMDs", "tax = theft", "trickle down economics", or "make social media a public utility" then those phrases are more likely to come out of the mouths of right wing talking heads than say medicare for all is on the left. Both sides are for regulating these industries for different reasons, but when one wing's idea gets more market share than the other's, they come out in opposition. Its crazy.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Warren called for regulation, not under a public utility metaphor. She described them as acting monopolistic in the same way as Microsoft had. No one said Microsoft should be treated as a public utiltiy. It's an inappropriate framework/metaphor because it's not infrastructure.

Without supporting the idea that Twitter or FB should be public utilities, I disagree that the metaphor is inappropriate; perhaps the metaphor is simply outdated.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Russia 'fires on and seizes Ukraine ships'


@sniper - I appropriated your YT channel, bruh

 

[all caps]

Russia 'fires on and seizes Ukraine ships'


@sniper - I appropriated your YT channel, bruh

I'm all for it!

I'm seriously waiting for someone to change my mind on that channel (for instance, if anyone can recognize an agenda hes pushing that I'm unable to see, I would like to know)

I havent found another channel that just passes along information like he does.

 

[spin]

The left is much more fractured than the right. If the right wants to get a message out like "Iraq has WMDs", "tax = theft", "trickle down economics", or "make social media a public utility" then those phrases are more likely to come out of the mouths of right wing talking heads than say medicare for all is on the left.

this, is actually the reason i prefer the left.

i prefer those pursuing any ideology to be more fractured. the united can accomplish so much more. so much worse.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

this, is actually the reason i prefer the left.

i prefer those pursuing any ideology to be more fractured. the united can accomplish so much more. so much worse.

Agreed. I do envy the right's ability to stay on message, ie "catapult the propaganda"

 

[Anung Un Rama]

this, is actually the reason i prefer the left.

i prefer those pursuing any ideology to be more fractured. the united can accomplish so much more. so much worse.

I'm changing my mind on this. I actually disagree. I appreciate that the left has more concerns, but their lack of focus prevents big things from getting done. Still prefer the left 10:1, but not for this reason.