War Room Lounge v135: Accidental Meme Thread Click

[lsa]

My ancestors had slaves.
But then they were bad ass vikings.

 

[Trotsky]

@Lowmanproblems Missouri amirite?

https://m.riverfronttimes.com/newsb...ght-on-video-threatening-couple-with-violence

 

[Rational Poster]

Yep. You see racism and slavery were both around before and after the Confederacy. Delaware was actually the last state to ratify the 13th Amendment. Also Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia and Maryland didn’t free their slaves until after the war when the 13th Amendment was passed. These were a Union states.

Revisionist bullshit.

Maryland and Delaware hardly had a choice in the matter because of their proximity to the capital and the heavy presence of Union troops before the outbreak of the conflict. They were also already moving away from slavery and did more slave trading with the south than actually running plantation operations.

The other "states" were basically pseudo-states still. Missouri and Kentucky actually had a Union AND Confederate governments during the war that fought each other the entire time. West Virginia wasn't even a state till 1863 and was basically just part of Virginian that the Confederates lost at the very start.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

How do you find out if your ancestors had slaves? I mean without joining ancestry.com

Check in your attic to see if you inherited any people you forgot about?

 

[Sara]

Check in your attic to see if you inherited any people you forgot about?

Yeah I don’t think that works,

 

[Gregolian]

Revisionist bullshit.

Maryland and Delaware hardly had a choice in the matter because of their proximity to the capital and the heavy presence of Union troops before the outbreak of the conflict. They were also already moving away from slavery and did more slave trading with the south than actually running plantation operations.

The other "states" were basically pseudo-states still. Missouri and Kentucky actually had a Union AND Confederate governments during the war that fought each other the entire time. West Virginia wasn't even a state till 1863 and was basically just part of Virginian that the Confederates lost at the very start.

Didn’t Longstreet even admit that the Confederacy should have walked away from the concept of slavery before firing on Fort Sumter? The idea being if they had done that they may have been able to get British aid

 

[Captain Davis]

Dude, you can't be serious. How can you even square this revisionist nonsense with the Cornerstone Speech?

Stephens’ statements on the equality of the races were widely held around the entire Union, even by men like Abraham Lincoln. It makes no sense that a man like Alexander Stephens, who lived among black people his entire life, is currently considered a white supremacist while Lincoln is not. Lincoln wanted the western territories to be open exclusively to white men, planned to colonize blacks in Africa up until his death, tried to free slaves where he had no power and freed none in territory he controlled, and explicitly stated his preference for white superiority in his debates with Stephen Douglas. While Alexander Stephens should be criticized for his acceptance of racist Northern pseudoscience in the Cornerstone speech, focusing only on his words about race detracts from its true purpose.

have you read all of the speech? It’s not all about slavery. He mentioned other concerns as well.

slavery was never threatened. But slavery was a lightning rod issue and Stephens as well as others knew by using it, they would get more support by most Americans.

why did the United States not just let the South go? The North could have ridden themselves of the slave problem and the Republicans had the government with no interference.

I’ll tell you why...money. If you want to know what secession and the war was about follow the money.

 

[Captain Davis]

Didn’t Longstreet even admit that the Confederacy should have walked away from the concept of slavery before firing on Fort Sumter? The idea being if they had done that they may have been able to get British aid

Their economy was based on slavery. They had come to depend on it. Getting rid of it wasn’t that easy. What were they going to do with 4 million people freed at once? The truth is, no one in the United States wanted a bunch of free blacks in their communities. They didn’t want the competition for jobs and they were just plain racists.

by 1865, the Confederacy was working on a plan but it was too late.

 

[Rational Poster]

Didn’t Longstreet even admit that the Confederacy should have walked away from the concept of slavery before firing on Fort Sumter? The idea being if they had done that they may have been able to get British aid

Longstreet was consistently right about everything that's why the lost cause revisionists like to shit on him.

Kind of hard to walk away from slavery when it's enshrined in your declarations of independence and constitution though.

 

[Captain Davis]

Revisionist bullshit.

Maryland and Delaware hardly had a choice in the matter because of their proximity to the capital and the heavy presence of Union troops before the outbreak of the conflict. They were also already moving away from slavery and did more slave trading with the south than actually running plantation operations.

The other "states" were basically pseudo-states still. Missouri and Kentucky actually had a Union AND Confederate governments during the war that fought each other the entire time. West Virginia wasn't even a state till 1863 and was basically just part of Virginian that the Confederates lost at the very start.

Slavery was still utilized and protected in those states by the federal government until after the war. Period.

 

[Rational Poster]

Slavery was still utilized and protected in those states by the federal government until after the war. Period.

But everything you just said was wrong.

 

[Captain Davis]

Longstreet was consistently right about everything that's why the lost cause revisionists like to shit on him.

Kind of hard to walk away from slavery when it's enshrined in your declarations of independence and constitution though.

Longstreet never spoke ill of the Confederacy. He got shit on because he became a Republican afterward.

 

[Captain Davis]

But everything you just said was wrong.

So, slavery wasn’t legal and protected by law in those states until after the war?

 

[Gregolian]

Longstreet was consistently right about everything that's why the lost cause revisionists like to shit on him.

Kind of hard to walk away from slavery when it's enshrined in your declarations of independence and constitution though.

This was him using 20/20 Hindsight obviously but as I recall his idea around the time you could tell the South was going to lose was that they should have moved away prior to leaving the Union and before shooting on the fort.

I really wonder how different the Civil War would be looked at/remembered if Virginia hadn’t left to be in the Confederacy. That was the only reason Lee, Jackson, and many other generals that got the Confederacy victories at the beginning even left.

 

[Rational Poster]

So, slavery wasn’t legal and protected by law in those states until after the war?

Not in the way you framed it. You tried to claim they stayed because they thought the Union would be better at preserving it.

That's obviously bullshit as I just pointed out.

 

[Captain Davis]

But everything you just said was wrong.

Lincoln stated that “to lose Kentucky was almost to lose at all,” and he played a masterly game of politics to hold this state in line. Kentucky wanted to remain in the Union and keep its slaves too. Lincoln told them it was not a war against slaveholders, but a war to preserve the Union. This was exactly what Kentucky wanted to hear and when Lincoln removed Fremont in MIssouri because he declared his determination to free all slaves in that state, the doubtful Kentuckians were convinced.

Hell, if Lincoln had not arrested Maryland Legislators, they would have voted for secession. Lincoln illegally suspended the writ of habeas corpus so that DC would not be surrounded by Confederate States.

 

[Captain Davis]

This was him using 20/20 Hindsight obviously but as I recall his idea around the time you could tell the South was going to lose was that they should have moved away prior to leaving the Union and before shooting on the fort.

I really wonder how different the Civil War would be looked at/remembered if Virginia hadn’t left to be in the Confederacy. That was the only reason Lee, Jackson, and many other generals that got the Confederacy victories at the beginning even left.

Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas would not have seceded if Lincoln would not have pulled the resupply mission to Sumter and using military coercion.

 

[Captain Davis]

Not in the way you framed it. You tried to claim they stayed because they thought the Union would be better at preserving it.

That's obviously bullshit as I just pointed out.

How could the war on the South be about slavery when 5 Union states held slaves throughout the war?

 

[Rational Poster]

How could the war on the South be about slavery when 5 Union states held slaves throughout the war?

The north fought to preserve the Union because the south seceded to preserve slavery. It's pretty simple.

Also, you're also wrong about the states not freeing slaves till the 13th amendment. Only Kentucky and Delaware waited that long. All the other border states ended slavery before the amendment and before the war was over.

 

[Gregolian]

The north fought to preserve the Union because the south seceded to preserve slavery. It's pretty simple.

Also, you're also wrong about the states not freeing slaves till the 13th amendment. Only Kentucky and Delaware waited that long. All the other border states ended slavery before the amendment and before the war was over.

“Ended” is a bit....... eeeeeehhhhh for me. Given how long “Share cropping” was around which is basically slavery without buying and selling of humans.