WAR ROOM LOUNGE V10: It's all in the hips

[Trotsky]

He's legitimately one of the best HWs ever.

Lest you forget...

Loss 9–1 Stefan Struve TKO (punches)

<{cruzshake}>

 

[Jack V Savage]

Lest you forget...

​

<{cruzshake}>

I remember, but everyone has black marks. Has anyone been on a run like the one he's had in his last six fights? 6-0 with 5 KOs (4 in the 1st round) against Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem, JDS, and Ngannou.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

I don't bet on MMA often anymore, but I put $1,000 down on Cormier at +240.

And, from reading your post and knowing that you watch the sport more faithfully than I do, that was probably a mistake. But Cormier c. 2012 at heavyweight was significantly more impressive to me than Stipe now. If he can look like he did against Bigfoot and Barnett, I like his chances.

Likewise, Cormier is probably my favorite active fighter outside of Cain and Nick Diaz....who one would stretch to call active anyways.

I’m thinking maybe you just haven’t watched Stipe as closely. He’s certainly beaten better competition than either DC or Cain did... given who he’s beaten and how I’m thinking he’d certainly KO Barnett and Mir rather than grind out a decision.

Of course none of that is to say DC can’t win, just that Stipe has an undeniably more impressive résumé. I don’t see how Barnett, Mir and Bigfoot can be more impressive than Werdum, JDS, Overreem, Ngannou, Hunt...

 

[Gregolian]

Man, there's a lot to get into, but I'd say that the anti-worker stuff is more extreme than I'd expect--vindictive rather than "just business"-type stuff, like not using guys (and thus not paying them) and enforcing no-compete clauses, forcing them into destitution. The life span of his employees is probably worse than a coal-mine owner.

When you've basically been the only game in town for over 2 decades and only recently has smaller promotions started gaining traction (New Japan as an example paying out money for guys like Jericho and Mysterio on short term deals), I can kinda get the non-compete clause stuff. Pretty sure a lot of companies have that too in a ton of different industries.

Like I realize the monopoly he has allows him to do this as fucked as it is but it's kinda like what the UFC does in a way too

 

[sickc0d3r]

At +240 I think DC is the value play. I do think Stipe can sleep him and maybe even neutralize his wrestling, but when DC's on he's impossible to beat on points and really hard to catch with anything damaging. Stipe likes to work off the cage and that's one of DC's strengths.
If it goes the distance, DC wins, imo. My biggest caveat is guys his age can go from great to mediocre overnight. We'll see.

 

[Jack V Savage]

When you've basically been the only game in town for over 2 decades and only recently has smaller promotions started gaining traction (New Japan as an example paying out money for guys like Jericho and Mysterio on short term deals), I can kinda get the non-compete clause stuff. Pretty sure a lot of companies have that too in a ton of different industries.

It's disturbingly common and always fucked up, but Vince's use of it to hurt people was unusual.

 

[Sycho Sid]

Man, Cormier came in heavier than Stipe.

 

[Trotsky]

I’m thinking maybe you just haven’t watched Stipe as closely. He’s certainly beaten better competition than either DC or Cain did... given who he’s beaten and how I’m thinking he’d certainly KO Barnett and Mir rather than grind out a decision.

Of course none of that is to say DC can’t win, just that Stipe has an undeniably more impressive résumé. I don’t see how Barnett, Mir and Bigfoot can be more impressive than Werdum, JDS, Overreem, Ngannou, Hunt...

I was talking about the performances individually (DC's win over Barnett was much more impressive to me than Stipe's over Ngannou, which was just a case of Ngannou being a poorly trained and poorly strategized fighter, and Stipe gaining a win that I would expect from any championship-caliber fighter), not the resume itself. I certainly agree that Stipe's HW resume is better, as it should be, since he's the champ and DC hasn't fought at heavyweight in many years.

 

[Fawlty]

I believe that if somebody created an account called "This Is A Troll Account," started posting here on day 1, and did nothing but troll in a rather obvious way, about 30% of the WR would defend that person and say it wasn't a troll account.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

I was talking about the performances individually (DC's win over Barnett was much more impressive to me than Stipe's over Ngannou, which was just a case of Ngannou being a poorly trained and poorly strategized fighter, and Stipe gaining a win that I would expect from any championship-caliber fighter), not the resume itself.

Sure but you can’t separate the performance from the opponent. Stipe didn’t look great against Ngannou but he fought wisely. DC would likely be more impressive against Ngannou given his stronger grappling, but I also think Stipe would be more impressive than DC against Mir, Bigfoot and Barnett. In those other fights I listed Stipe finished fighters who are better than anyone DC has fought at HW.

 

[Tekk]

To be fair, Bob Costas is a massive asshole, and a shitty journalist.

Costas always seemed like he thought he was just as important as the athletes he covered.

 

[Tekk]

When i hear conservative trolls crying about getting the ban hammer.

 

[Gregolian]

Costas always seemed like he thought he was just as important as the athletes he covered.

I'd argue he thinks he's more important.

Dude just seems like he'd be a colossal prick in person too talking about how amazing he is and shit all the time, meanwhile everyone around him would be thinking of ways to get away with beating the shit out of him

 

[Jack V Savage]

Sure but you can’t separate the performance from the opponent. Stipe didn’t look great against Ngannou but he fought wisely. DC would likely be more impressive against Ngannou given his stronger grappling, but I also think Stipe would be more impressive than DC against Mir, Bigfoot and Barnett. In those other fights I listed Stipe finished fighters who are better than anyone DC has fought at HW.

I thought Stipe looked great against Ngannou. Punished him for mistakes, and cruelly exploited the holes in his game. He made Ngannou look like a bum because of that, but Ngannou came in as the legitimate No. 1 contender and the best HW prospect we've seen in a while. He's not actually a bum, though he does have some big weaknesses.

That's the thing about Stipe. He's not an impressive athlete, and he doesn't really excel at any one area of the game so he doesn't dazzle, but he's really good at winning fights against good opponents. Watch him carefully. Whenever you see the other guy do something that makes you think, "he shouldn't do that because it leaves him vulnerable to X," the next time he does it, Stipe will do X. Cormier's recent flinchy defense is something I worry that Stipe will figure out.

 

[Gregolian]

Lest you forget...

​

<{cruzshake}>

Fedor lost to TK

Hoost lost to Sapp... TWICE in K1

GSP lost to Serra

Anderson lost to Okami

 

[HomerThompson]

I believe that if somebody created an account called "This Is A Troll Account," started posting here on day 1, and did nothing but troll in a rather obvious way, about 30% of the WR would defend that person and say it wasn't a troll account.

Sounds exactly correct. Trump's hardcore base is at about 30%.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Fedor lost to TK

Hoost lost to Sapp... TWICE in K1

GSP lost to Serra

Anderson lost to Okami

Anderson lost to Chonan and Takase, as well as Okami. The Okami loss was a DQ and he avenged it brutally so idk about that example so much.

 

[Trotsky]

Fedor lost to TK

Hoost lost to Sapp... TWICE in K1

GSP lost to Serra

Anderson lost to Okami

Whoa now. Fedor did not lose to TK and Anderson did not lose to Okami, just like Jon Jones didn't lose to Hamill. DQ's and cut stoppages =/= getting brutally KO'd by Gumby.

I take your point, though, and was being comedic re his loss to Struve.

 

[Gregolian]

Anderson lost to Chonan and Takase, as well as Okami. The Okami loss was a DQ and he avenged it brutally so idk about that example so much.

Whoa now. Fedor did not lose to TK and Anderson did not lose to Okami, just like Jon Jones didn't lose to Hamill. DQ's and cut stoppages =/= getting brutally KO'd by Gumby.

I take your point, though, and was being comedic re his loss to Struve.

STOP SHITTING ALL OVER MY SHITTY EXAMPLES!

Boxing has a ton of examples of this like I know RJJ lost a really REALLY controversial fight that he later avenged with a brutal KO. And while Ward was no slouch given how the two rematches went Gatti was objectively far and away his superior.

 

[Jack V Savage]

STOP SHITTING ALL OVER MY SHITTY EXAMPLES!

Boxing has a ton of examples of this like I know RJJ lost a really REALLY controversial fight that he later avenged with a brutal KO.

Hmm. Was RJJ/Griffin I controversial? Jones blatantly hit him twice after he took a knee, and he was unable to continue. Not sure what choice the ref had. Jones was also arguably losing to that point, though he seemed to have turned it around.