Social War Room Lounge Thread #325: PotWR Edition

[Rob Battisti]

Vance said in that debate with Walz that he wouldn't have certified the election for Biden in 2020 and refused to admit Trump lost, that's very radical no matter how you slice it. I know you guys are trying to rewrite history and frame Jan 6th as a nothingburger but backing that CT is very much a radical departure from American values and norms.

No normal person will or is currently viewing him as radical. No matter how much you don’t want that to be true.

 

[Islam Imamate]

No normal person will or is currently viewing him as radical. No matter how much you don’t want that to be true.

You don't think that his statement that he wouldn't have certified the 2020 election for Joe Biden is radical? That he refused to concede Biden's 2020 win might make him come off extreme? Don't you think moderates should recognize the results of elections?

 

[Rob Battisti]

You don't think that his statement that he wouldn't have certified the 2020 election for Joe Biden is radical? That he refused to concede Biden's 2020 win might make him come off extreme? Don't you think moderates should recognize the results of elections?

What I think or what you think is irrelevant.

The electorate does not and will not view him as radical.

 

[Islam Imamate]

What I think or what you think is irrelevant.

You said this earlier

No one who has watched his VP debate or will watch a future debate will ever label him as a radical unless they are firmly on the left.

But, to that group, everyone on the right is a radical.

You think only someone firmly on the left would perceive support for Trump's Jan 6th movement as radical?

The electorate does not and will not view him as radical.

Is that true? His favorability rating has only dropped overtime

Since taking office as vice president in January, JD Vance's favorability has steadily declined, according to tracking data from Civiqs.

Polling data suggests that Vance's falling favorability is the result of a sharply polarized political climate in which his appeal is hardening among conservatives but eroding among moderates, liberals, younger voters, and communities of color.

In the YouGov/Economist polling, unfavorable sentiment surged by 9 and 12 points respectively among liberals and moderates, while conservative support rose slightly to 80 percent. The trend is similar in Civiqs polling, with 89 percent of Republicans viewing him favorably, while Democrats overwhelmingly disapprove—just 3 percent favorable and 95 percent unfavorable.

But, outside of those groups, Vance's support is slipping. Independent voters, long seen as a key swing bloc, are turning away: Civiqs finds independents more negative than positive toward Vance, while YouGov reports a 6-point increase in unfavorable sentiment and a slight drop in favorability

To be fair it's looking at favorability rather than perceptions of moderation or radicalism but I would bet that favorability tracks with perception of moderation, at least among independents.

 

[Rob Battisti]

You said this earlier

You think only someone firmly on the left would perceive support for Trump's Jan 6th movement as radical?

Is that true? His favorability rating has only dropped overtime




To be fair it's looking at favorability rather than perceptions of moderation or radicalism but I would bet that favorability tracks with perception of moderation, at least among independents.

Favorability isn’t an indication of whether someone feels the person is radical or not.

The point is the electorate will not buy him as a radical. Especially when compared to Trump.

If the democrats go that route they will lose.

 

[HomeCheese]

Uh, no.

Okay sorry, my bad. I remember one of the magas talking about walking from their parents house to the vance rally.

Anywho, if Vance doesn't get your gaydar clicking you ain't got none.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Favorability isn’t an indication of whether someone feels the person is radical or not.

Okay sure but do you think they correlate at all?

The point is the electorate will not buy him as a radical. Especially when compared to Trump.

Why are you so certain of that? Especially when he's endorsed some of Trump's most radical beliefs?

If the democrats go that route they will lose.

You think they'll struggle to paint a candidate who is unfavorably viewed by everyone other than conservatives as radical? Seems like it'd be easy really.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Okay sure but do you think they correlate at all?

Why are you so certain of that? Especially when he's endorsed some of Trump's most radical beliefs?

You think they'll struggle to paint a candidate who is unfavorably viewed by everyone other than conservatives as radical? Seems like it'd be easy really.

Without saying the words january or certify, define what a radical is.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Without saying the words january or certify, define what a radical is.

In this context? Someone who believes it's okay to stop the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost a free and fair election.

 

[Rob Battisti]

In this context? Someone who believes it's okay to stop the peaceful transfer of power after their preferred candidate lost a free and fair election.

Sneaky.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

What I think or what you think is irrelevant.

The electorate does not and will not view him as radical.

It's exactly what you think though. You're not only predicting the content of his future debates but you're speaking for the "electorate". Have you always been a fan of his or was just watching the VP debate enough to convince you?

 

[Rob Battisti]

It's exactly what you think though. You're not only predicting the content of his future debates but you're speaking for the "electorate". Have you always been a fan of his or was just watching the VP debate enough to convince you?

I think people throw out the term radical far too often. I never called Harris radical and don’t believe that her or Biden were for the most part radicals. I think that when you are on a ticket which wins the popular vote and every swing state the policies that you are for, by definition, are not radical, this is what I mean when I say that the electorate does not view him as a radical.

Someone like Talib ZM or AOC would more fit the term radical as their platforms are not aligned with the main stream. on issues like immigration, and his position is held by the majority of the electorate. I don’t know how anyone could define someone who holds positions that are supported by the majority of the electorate a radical.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Conversely, I think that Trump is by definition a radical due to his character and inability to actually hold a singular position for longer than it is in his mind. I would also say that trying to paint Vance as a radical when he’s going to be held up against Trump is a very silly strategy. He will look like the most normal person simply because he is not Trump.

 

[Rob Battisti]

@LangfordBarrow I do like Vance though. He is measured, pragmatic and intelligent.

I am usually a single or dual issue voter. I don’t think I’d vote for Vance though. This upcoming election the most important thing for me will be the continued security of the border and our approach toward AI.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Without saying the words january or certify, define what a radical is.

The common use of "radical" isn't always in line with how it is used in terms of situating a political or social movement/actor. To understand, you really need to plot the other side of the spectrum as well, which is reactionary. Radical vs reactionary is really a better way to understand politics imo than liberal vs conservative, left vs right, etc. And something can be called radical in common parlance just by virtue of it being an extreme or major deviation.
As an individual, Trump is hard to pin down because he mostly doesn't have values at all, however his administration is filled with hyper reactionaries carrying out reactionary political schemes.

 

[Yehudim]

@LangfordBarrow I do like Vance though. He is measured, pragmatic and intelligent.

I am usually a single or dual issue voter. I don’t think I’d vote for Vance though. This upcoming election the most important thing for me will be the continued security of the border and our approach toward AI.

He’s probably too pragmatic, considering his flip flopping on Trump and Russia.

 

[My Spot]

Too pragmatic or keeping kayfabe?

 

[LMP]

Too pragmatic or keeping kayfabe?

Gotta make the works look like a shoots. Kayfabe works best when the marks think it's real.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Wasn't Rubio known to don some high heels and go to gay bubble dance parties? Perhaps if Vance/Rubio go on the ballot against someone else and Mayor Pete it will be 4 folks on the ticket that are some mix of homosexual/latent homosexual/closeted homosexual.

May the popcorn come out!

 

[HOLA]

No one who has watched his VP debate or will watch a future debate will ever label him as a radical unless they are firmly on the left.

But, to that group, everyone on the right is a radical.

“I think what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, and replace them with our people. And when the courts stop you, stand before the country and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’”

- JD Vance

Sounds pretty far out there, no?