Wait, some Sherdoggers actually think Izzy beats Jones?

[Do The Evolution]

I'd certainly favor Jones but no way is this a cakewalk for the wily Pico.

 

[gevoudane]

I can see either fighter winning. a lot of it would depend though on which weight they fought at. Heavier weights I'd lean Jones, lighter Izzy.

 

[gevoudane]

We will see.
Mmath doesn't work bro...
1- Jones lost to Reyes. Not arguably, but 100% lost.
But Izzy is no where as strong as Reyes to defend TDs and doesnt hit as hard either. Jones ate Reyes shots for 3 rounds like cookies.
2- Izzy arguably lost to Marvin the mother fucking Stallion Vettori and had the worst championship performance of all time vs Yoel.
What's your point?

Vettori is a legit fighter, no shame there.

 

[ThunderL1ps]

I think it plays out a lot like Machida/Bones.

Jones chokes out this Izzy character.

 

[The Legendary Scarface]

Nah bro you're good, I would've gone harder if the roles were reversed honestly, don't really deserve your graciousness.

Anyway I'll admit I'm being biased, but I'm trying my best to keep it out of my analysis. I agree with everything you're saying, if this were picto or prime Jones. Obviously his fight IQ isn't going to deteriorate, but his reflexes and decision making aren't what they were in say the DC 2 fight (which he was all dick pilled out for). I'm not questioning his will to win or his IQ at all, he wouldn't be such a long reigning champion otherwise.

The thing is that Jones dropping his belt and asking if we'd be mad if he came back to take it from Jan was very telling. He was obviously running from Reyes, he'd act insulted whenever he was asked questions about the rematch and would deny that fight was ever offered to him, even though Dana said otherwise publicly. I believe the reason he's planning a move up to HW is because he's not confident in his ability to deal with the speed anymore. At heavyweight he'd be the faster more agile fighter again.

Think about it, Jones even called it at the preflight presser, he told Reyes in his face that all he had was a straight left and the occasional body kick, even mocked him for claiming he's a superior athlete. But what happened in the fight? Jones being well aware of what Reyes brought to the table, couldn't stop Doms offense, and was taken to his most controversial decision to date (which have been stacking up lately in his career). A lesser striker in Jan showed everyone just how limited Dom is, and yet Jon couldn't deal with him.

Jan is also slow for LHW, which is why Jon "teased us" with moving back down. The guy isn't stupid when it comes to his career. All of his decisions are extremely calculated. He doesn't like fighting guys who are faster or have a similar frame to him, these guys have caused him the most problems.

That brings me to Izzy. He's the same height as Jones, at a slight reach disadvantage, but I believe this would be nullified by the difference in striking ability. Besides Jon mostly uses his arm length defensively for framing. Jon isn't a big jabber must of his punches are in close, he mostly uses kicks at distance. Izzy is a master at kicking, striking ranges, and their defense. I don't think Izzy would fall for Jon's traps, nor would he be picked apart from the outside. He'd punish Jones with his superior countering ability and speed.

Clinching and wrestling dept is all Jones, obviously. That said Jon has had trouble getting guys of similar build to the ground. Izzy having his kickboxing style rooted in Muay thai, probably has a pretty decent clinch, I haven't really seen him work it much, but I don't doubt it's there. I don't think he'd be lost there, even when it comes to trips and singles. Training in the clinch for a long time helps you guage when your opponent is shifting weight to attempt any movement in the clinch. Dropping levels is pretty major and I think Izzy would pick up on it pretty quickly.

If Jon does get Izzy to the ground with time to spare, I think Izzy has a rough couple of minutes and is most likely finished, however I can see him surviving for upwards of a minute. How long can Jon survive on the feet?

Damn, you packed a lot in there lol.
I'll try to process and acknowledge everything that you just said.

As far as Jones moving to HW, and vacating the belt. I really don't know. It may be that you're right and he didn't want to face Reyes again (for obvious reasons, ie their first fight) or some other motive, I really don't know but I don't even wanna get into it. Let's discuss this Izzy matchup a bit more.

I'm still unsure of Izzy in the clinch .. Even though he's been very successful with TDD this far and he does do well with getting under hooks and essentially slipping away from any sort of real grappling exchange, we just don't know because he hasn't had to deal with it too much. While he has the length and height that help him with leverage, I don't know if that alone will be enough with an equally taller , but much stronger bigger Jones.

Adesanya doesnt have the strength that someone like Reyes has. Mind you, Reyes cuts to get to 205, he's a big dude and Gus just debuted at HW and Jon is used to pushing guys that size around. Also, Reyes and Santos are such more powerful punchers than Izzy and while Jones ate some shots from them, he never looked wobbled or hurt at all.

If they stand the entire time, I think Izzy wins a boring split decision. But I believe Jones eventually finds an opportunity to catch a kick or get some type of trip near the cage to take Izzy down and finish him. Jones will definitely not be going for the kill with his strikes like Kelvin did. I think he'll be extremely boring on the feet and just go tit for that with leg kicks, oblique kicks and stay long and move the entirety of the time he stands with Adesanya.

 

[The Legendary Scarface]

I can see either fighter winning. a lot of it would depend though on which weight they fought at. Heavier weights I'd lean Jones, lighter Izzy.

How do you think Jones would gameplan to get it to the ground?

 

[arcadeperfect]

You mean the multitude of KO artists he's beaten over the past decade while steadily improving his own striking game.... Are they the guy's you are saying didn't have the "clear path to victory" Izzy will enjoy based on his spectacular finish of an opponent everyone should have seen was tailor made to produce that spectacular performance for him?

I say this as someone who is a bigger fan of Izzy than I am of Jon but your statement is blatantly false with all due respect.

Izzy vs Jon will be a huge mistake for Izzy if it happens and for that reason I hope it doesn't.

KO power isn't nearly as reliable as overall striking ability. Izzy path to victory isn't a 1 punch KO like people like Rampage, Glover, Santos, and Reyes. His overall striking ability is far greater than Jones or anything Jones has ever faced.

 

[The Legendary Scarface]

Jones had two very close last fights, that could have gone either way. Jones doesn't seem unbeatable anymore, he is past his prime. Izzy the Last Humper is in his prime now. I get it why some would think Izzy has a chance.
I'd still favor Jones though. All he needs to do is take Izzy down and maul him.

How do you think Jones gameplans for the takedown if they fight?

 

[gevoudane]

How do you think Jones would gameplan to get it to the ground?

I think he'd test the stand-up for awhile and try to get it to the clinch and or against the cage. Once in the clinch then drops to a double leg.

 

[boss429]

KO power isn't nearly as reliable as overall striking ability. Izzy path to victory isn't a 1 punch KO like people like Rampage, Glover, Santos, and Reyes. His overall striking ability is far greater than Jones or anything Jones has ever faced.

I disagree.

Jones has fought Shogun and Machida, 2 of the most complete strikers in MMA. Izzy is a great striker but I really don't see what he brings to the table that will surprise Jon, I do see what Jon brings to the table that will surprise him though.

Also, if this fight does for some reason happen I'm willing to bet Jon brings in his buddy, (and the greatest striker the UFC has ever seen), Andy to mimic Izzy's style which will be another big advantage.

 

[arcadeperfect]

I disagree.

Jones has fought Shogun and Machida, 2 of the most complete strikers in MMA. Izzy is a great striker but I really don't see what he brings to the table that will surprise Jon, I do see what Jon brings to the table that will surprise him though.

Also, if this fight does for some reason happen I'm willing to bet Jon brings in his buddy, (and the greatest striker the UFC has ever seen), Andy to mimic Izzy's style which will be another big advantage.

Izzy is a far better striker than Shogun and Machida.

 

[The Legendary Scarface]

I think he'd test the stand-up for awhile and try to get it to the clinch and or against the cage. Once in the clinch then drops to a double leg.

That's plausible for sure. I'm thinking he tries to catch a kick and drives Izzy to the cage.

 

[gevoudane]

Just saw this
'I'm picking Izzy!': Daniel Cormier backs Israel Adesanya to beat UFC's pound-for-pound No 1 Jon Jones inside the octagon after pair became embroiled in nasty war of words

 

[gevoudane]

That's plausible for sure. I'm thinking he tries to catch a kick and drives Izzy to the cage.

If Jones does wins I definitely think the cage will be part of it. But I can see Izzy keeping it from happening. Would definitely be a fight Id watch.

 

[WHITE ANDERSON]

2020 jones is past his prime and would lose to adesanya

jones has never been great about using his punching reach (he has no jab lol) and he's not going to outkick adesanya
jones had a tough time against a one-legged fighter thiago santos

jones hasn't used his wrestling successfully since the gustafson rematch
i don't think jones has the wrestling style to take down adesanya, people forget that he would take guys down from clinch position and not standard double leg freestyle kind of stuff

prime jones wrecks adesanya easy but the guy has been fighting for about 12 years. that's the average shelf life for an MMA fighter and his recent performances show he's declined

 

[boss429]

Izzy is a far better striker than Shogun and Machida.

No, in MMA he is yet to prove that.

People are vastly over rating a spectacular performance against a Costa that it was plain as day to see was tailor made to produce that result. (Feel free to check my post history if you think I'm just saying this in hindsight.)

Jon is an extremely creative striker who is very aware of range and rarely ever gets countered on top of having a size and strength advantage, a decisive plan B to fall back on and one of MMAs best camps when it comes to game planning.

Don't get me wrong, I fucking love Izzy, he's possibly my favorite current fighter, (aside from Aldo and Andy on the rare occasion he fights), but fighting Jon is a terrible idea and will only result in hurting his career in the long run. He really has no path to victory that I can see, especially considering he doesn't bring that 1 punch power you earlier mentioned to the table and will have to rely on out pointing Jon over 5 rounds while possessing very few advantages that would allow him to do so.

 

[Hirashin]

How do you think Jones gameplans for the takedown if they fight?

jones will kick box with izzy, no doubt, he's done it with everybody, he will do it with izzy too.
Jones has the most resilient legs I've ever seen, he ate about 30 full power leg kicks from Mareta and was uninjured, Mareta went to hospital with both knees fully torn out.
SO Jones won't be afraid to get kicked. I expect leg kick war as Jones delivers some nasty oblique kicks himself. Both men will deliver kicks from 3 meters away. Jones will enjoy this game of long distance strikes, he can take a ton of punishment. Then he has to close the distance. The idea is to make it nasty and force Izzy to the the clinch. From the clinch to the mat. Izzy will be resilient the first 2 rounds, no doubt, he will try to stay on his feet, but he will be tired after 2-3 rounds of constant pressure. I don't see Izzy's punches being effective against Jones, Jones has shown iron chin. Yes, every chin deteriorates and if its Jones's turn have a cracked chin, Izzy will be the luckiest sob alive that night.
While Izzy has big striking advantage on the feet, I expect Jones to not let him have success. Being a counter striker has negative sides, your opponent has to keep moving forward. Once the opponent stops moving forward Izzy will stall the game and booes will inevitably happen. izzy cannot blame all of his opponents for the stalling as the only denominator for the stalling in all his fights is he himself.
Once on the ground, Izzy will try to scramble like nuts, he will use all his powers to try and stand up, cause he knows he is dead meat off his back. Jones musty be persistant with his takedown and eventually Izzy's powers will fade and he will end up on his back. Then its game over.
I expect Jones to be as relaxed as always, not force the clinch. Jones has nothing to worry about, he has long reach and resilience, he can stand with Izzy for 5 rounds if he wants to. SOmewhere in the 3rd he will start to close the distance I guess.

Now Jones is not the old unbeatable machine we all know, he is older now, and doesn't wrassle anymore.
But Izzy is weak, much smaller and weaker guy who can't wrassle.
This probably goes to the decision. BOnes 49:46.

 

[drbolony]

Damn, you packed a lot in there lol.
I'll try to process and acknowledge everything that you just said.

As far as Jones moving to HW, and vacating the belt. I really don't know. It may be that you're right and he didn't want to face Reyes again (for obvious reasons, ie their first fight) or some other motive, I really don't know but I don't even wanna get into it. Let's discuss this Izzy matchup a bit more.

I'm still unsure of Izzy in the clinch .. Even though he's been very successful with TDD this far and he does do well with getting under hooks and essentially slipping away from any sort of real grappling exchange, we just don't know because he hasn't had to deal with it too much. While he has the length and height that help him with leverage, I don't know if that alone will be enough with an equally taller , but much stronger bigger Jones.

Adesanya doesnt have the strength that someone like Reyes has. Mind you, Reyes cuts to get to 205, he's a big dude and Gus just debuted at HW and Jon is used to pushing guys that size around. Also, Reyes and Santos are such more powerful punchers than Izzy and while Jones ate some shots from them, he never looked wobbled or hurt at all.

If they stand the entire time, I think Izzy wins a boring split decision. But I believe Jones eventually finds an opportunity to catch a kick or get some type of trip near the cage to take Izzy down and finish him. Jones will definitely not be going for the kill with his strikes like Kelvin did. I think he'll be extremely boring on the feet and just go tit for that with leg kicks, oblique kicks and stay long and move the entirety of the time he stands with Adesanya.

Yeah my bad lol, I know I went into that pretty in depth, but I really just wanted to paint a clear picture of why I think Jones is avoiding faster fighters.

I mean you're right about the clinch for sure, clinching for MT and clinching for wrestling are two completely different beasts. I don't expect Izzy to go the whole fight without getting taken down. Especially is Jones muscles some of his attempts if he feels he's much stronger. I was just saying Izzy has been there and will be aware of shifts in weight, which can help him defend better than others. That's all.

He definitely doesn't have the power those guys have, but he definitely has the more speed. I'm going to get cheesy here again, but it's the ones you don't see that hurt you. Izzy is an extremely patient and relentless finisher once he has hurt pray. He won't let you off the hook. If he can wobble Jones once, I think it's game over, unless they're fresh and Jones can pull off a reactive TD while they're dry.

Catching a kick is interesting, I guess I never brought it up cause I just assumed Jones' reflexes are too shot for that (against a guy of Izzy's calibre, Jon isn't an old man yet). If you're right about the boring movement and tit for tat kicking, that's Izzy's game all day and he probably would win a decision there.

Prime Jones would most likely ragdoll Izzy, but the guy who ran from Reyes gets tagged often, imo.

 

[ticho123]

Why not? Prime Jones probably handles him but Jones as of now looks like a shadow of his former self. Almost lost to Reyes and Santos and I think Israel are way better, albeit smaller, than both.

 

[Jack&Cat]

The OP just hurt my brain, but he’s not wrong. Jones by murder round 2. Perhaps even round 1.

Facts.