Veterans describe killing during war

HunterSdVa29 said:
depends on the situation
if it's a 'kill or be killed' as our current ROEs basically require, the situation likely isn't as traumatic

IMO, from my personal experiences in war, it's not so much killing others that messes people up as seeing your boys killed, aka Survivor's Guilt
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My dad had this really bad when he first came back I guess.

They were due to ship back home in like a week and got shelled. My dad and like 4 others made it out unscathed and a couple others got wounded and he had to see a shell fall ON the foxhole of a friend of his who had a child born while he was away from home the way Lutz saw his friends die as potrayed in Band of Brothers.

Asked him if he talked to any of his friends from his time in and his response scared me when I was younger but I get it now:
"After my first tour I stopped making friends... you make friends it hurts more when they leave"
 
BB in Crazy!!!! said:
Now sometimes innocent casualties happen. I have never been in that situation, although I have scene it. That would mess me up for life without a doubt.
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My dad was one of those Vietnam vets that came back being called a baby killer and he lost his shit and beat the fuck out of some protester because of it.

He was forced to kill a child in Vietnam because two kids were running down the beach he was on with some Marines, stopped, then started shooting at them with AKs and my dad was the one the hit them with his 12 gauge.
 
Gregolian said:
My dad had this really bad when he first came back I guess.

They were due to ship back home in like a week and got shelled. My dad and like 4 others made it out unscathed and a couple others got wounded and he had to see a shell fall ON the foxhole of a friend of his who had a child born while he was away from home the way Lutz saw his friends die as potrayed in Band of Brothers.

Asked him if he talked to any of his friends from his time in and his response scared me when I was younger but I get it now:
"After my first tour I stopped making friends... you make friends it hurts more when they leave"
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damn son, respect to your pops

My brother was in the Battle of Najaf Aug 2004, in the very first push into the cemetery. A mortar landed, killed all four guys around him, and launched him like 30' away. Severed femoral artery, 300+ pieces of shrapnel, concussive blast all that......He technically died, and then was revived, sent to Landstuhl, etc....

To this day, despite not being able to feel his left arm at all, shrapnel and nerve issues, the thing that gets him the most is the fact he lived and the others didn't...
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
damn son, respect to your pops

My brother was in the Battle of Najaf Aug 2004, in the very first push into the cemetery. A mortar landed, killed all four guys around him, and launched him like 30' away. Severed femoral artery, 300+ pieces of shrapnel, concussive blast all that......He technically died, and then was revived, sent to Landstuhl, etc....

To this day, despite not being able to feel his left arm at all, shrapnel and nerve issues, the thing that gets him the most is the fact he lived and the others didn't...
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And my dad was in Vietnam when we were still just the advisory force for the locals. So there was a lot of working with Australians, South Koreans, and the locals to the point they all bonded over "our mutual boredom and suffering" so it hit him extra hard. This guy that he basically JUST met was no longer there.

He also had to suffer through searching for missing GIs/Aussie Rangers and finding them trussed up in trees with their heads in their body cavities too and the village literally 20 feet away doing the "we no VC, we not know what happen. We no VC" routine.

"The thing that war taught me is the greatest force to drive people together is mutual suffering.. it's also the thing that makes it hard to say goodbye when it's over"
 
Gregolian said:
I disagree. Movies like Black Hawk Down, Lone Survivor, and We Were Soldiers does a great job of slamming home how real the people involved in the conflicts are.


My dad told me only two stories about his time in Vietnam and I never asked him again about his time there after those two re-tellings.
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I see the people as actors. I can't connect with them at this point in my life, so I choose not to watch.

Black Hawk Down was my favorite movie before I gained some real world experience. I won't watch it now. My reasons for not watching it, I won't elaborate too much on. Neither do they matter.

If anyone wants to watch war movies for whatever reason, that is on them. I respect differing thoughts, and viewpoints.

I wouldn't try to validate those thoughts through me, neither am I seeking to validate my thoughts with anyone on this website.

If you watch war movies, cool.
 
Gregolian said:
Then why bother having a profile and posting?
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There are conversations I will entertain. However, I am not seeking anything (especially on this topic). I know where I stand.

My reasons for not watching war movies are my reasons.

Trying to convert me or challenge that position, I think is a waste of time.
 
What vets who have seen combat deal with is why a character like Frank Castle, who was supposed to be a one off villain for Spider-Man... end up sticking around.

My dad for the most part thinks comic movies are pretty stupid. He'll watch stuff with Thor in it cause he likes the character but anything Punisher related, he'll read it/watch it multiple times. You want a great analogy of the difficulties guys face coming home... watch the first couple episodes of the Punisher Netflix series for the struggles/flashbacks Frank has of his kids while he's taking the hammer to the wall.

My buddy that was 82nd said he will routinely wake up in a cold sweat almost once a week with the image of the three guys he went through boot with and into the 82nd with that died in Afghanistan on his brain and then he can't sleep for almost 30 hours.
 
Gregolian said:
And my dad was in Vietnam when we were still just the advisory force for the locals. So there was a lot of working with Australians, South Koreans, and the locals to the point they all bonded over "our mutual boredom and suffering" so it hit him extra hard. This guy that he basically JUST met was no longer there.

He also had to suffer through searching for missing GIs/Aussie Rangers and finding them trussed up in trees with their heads in their body cavities too and the village literally 20 feet away doing the "we no VC, we not know what happen. We no VC" routine.

"The thing that war taught me is the greatest force to drive people together is mutual suffering.. it's also the thing that makes it hard to say goodbye when it's over"
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Worst thing I ever had to deal with wasn't even direct combat for me, but identifying the remains of a R&R transport hit by a VBIED and EFP in Kabul

I knew everyone on board that died, yet couldn't tell who was who afterwards. They even got the combat stress Dog bruh...
Try as I might, those images will never be erased from my mind. Also, I was a 92F technically, not a 92M (mortuary affairs) so why was I even tasked w/ that haha
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
Worst thing I ever had to deal with wasn't even direct combat for me, but identifying the remains of a R&R transport hit by a VBIED and EFP in Kabul

I knew everyone on board that died, yet couldn't tell who was who afterwards. They even got the combat stress Dog bruh...
Try as I might, those images will never be erased from my mind. Also, I was a 92F technically, not a 92M (mortuary affairs) so why was I even tasked w/ that haha
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That's rough dude.

The guys my dad saw die he accompanied the caskets home... the caskets were empty save for dog tags, boots, and an empty rifle since they couldn't find enough remains.
 
You know for all the stories of misery and PTSD, there are plenty more soldiers who don't go mental after tours. How else do you explain people with 10+ deployments? I am not saying PTSD isn't there, but it is almost always the first thing people talk about with soldiers after talking about killing or war.

If it is so miserable- why do you think people who have done a few tours then go for selection into special operations forces? They like their job, they like their training and they like deploying. Acclimatizing when coming home or leaving the military is obviously always going to be a culture shock- whether having been in combat or not (or even deploy for that matter). There is over-glorification of war, but there seems to be a massive over-vilification of it.

When I joined I signed paper that said the government would give me 2000 if I lost a leg, 8000 if I lost both legs. Do you think I gave a shit about that tiny sum of money when signed the dotted line? Or that I expected nice treatment in the military or to be 'looked after' when I left? I VOLUNTEERED. Just as I respect guys with multiple tours under their belts, I respect guys generations before who were forced to join and deploy...I had the luxury of choosing to go into the military and the lack of 'benefits' upon leaving, they didn't.

For these reasons I agree with @FightGuyOpenMind, most war movies/tv drama versions are bullshit. IMO the closest thing to reality I have seen on TV is band of brothers.
 
BillytheFish said:
For these reasons I agree with @FightGuyOpenMind, most war movies/tv drama versions are bullshit. IMO the closest thing to reality I have seen on TV is band of brothers.
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Watch Generation Kill. All my buddies that went overseas says it's the closest thing to how their time went in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Lots of bitching
Lots of officers not knowing what they were doing
Lots of stupid decisions to try and get promoted
Lots of bitching
Lots of "why are we doing this this stupid way?"

 
Gregolian said:
Watch Generation Kill. All my buddies that went overseas says it's the closest thing to how their time went in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Lots of bitching
Lots of officers not knowing what they were doing
Lots of stupid decisions to try and get promoted
Lots of bitching
Lots of "why are we doing this this stupid way?"

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yeah i watched that too actually, great show and fairly accurate. fucking funny too.- generally though most movies tend to have shit consultants/advisors.

den of thieves (bank robber movie) you can tell had a good consultant for the action sequences. aswell as 'proof of life'
 
BillytheFish said:
yeah i watched that too actually, great show and fairly accurate. fucking funny too.- generally though most movies tend to have shit consultants/advisors.

den of thieves (bank robber movie) you can tell had a good consultant for the action sequences. aswell as 'proof of life'
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The thing that I think puts Gen Kill over the top in terms of quality is the Rudy plays himself as does one other guy in the group. So they were there and could be like "we didn't do that shit" plus the reporter himself was an adviser and had all his tapes too so a lot of the random shit Ray spews he apparently actually spewed at some point.

My Vietnam vet dad even was like "replace the desert with a shitty humid jungle and it's close to how shit was for me save a couple incidents"
 
Gregolian said:
What vets who have seen combat deal with is why a character like Frank Castle, who was supposed to be a one off villain for Spider-Man... end up sticking around.

My dad for the most part thinks comic movies are pretty stupid. He'll watch stuff with Thor in it cause he likes the character but anything Punisher related, he'll read it/watch it multiple times. You want a great analogy of the difficulties guys face coming home... watch the first couple episodes of the Punisher Netflix series for the struggles/flashbacks Frank has of his kids while he's taking the hammer to the wall.

My buddy that was 82nd said he will routinely wake up in a cold sweat almost once a week with the image of the three guys he went through boot with and into the 82nd with that died in Afghanistan on his brain and then he can't sleep for almost 30 hours.
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The Punisher has a unique appeal to members of the armed services. Chris Kyle's use of the Skull is the most(in)famous but he was far from the only one. Lots of units or individual soldiers will have the Punisher logo on weapons, uniforms etc. Bernthal has said that the knowledge that Frank Castle has so many fans among the military and law enforcement is one of the things that drives him to give the best performance he can,

"People have gone into battle for our country wearing the Punisher's skull. I owe it to them not to screw up".
 
Any time I think of veterans and war I think of this scene.

Really puts shit in perspective.
 
BillytheFish said:
yeah i watched that too actually, great show and fairly accurate. fucking funny too.- generally though most movies tend to have shit consultants/advisors.

den of thieves (bank robber movie) you can tell had a good consultant for the action sequences. aswell as 'proof of life'
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Den of Thieves has the best shootouts since Heat IMO
That final scene with the SAW, the bounding/scrolling, team flank, etc...was ridiculously well done IMO
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
Den of Thieves has the best shootouts since Heat IMO
That final scene with the SAW, the bounding/scrolling, team flank, etc...was ridiculously well done IMO
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The actors in Heat were trained by ex-SAS guys for their final shootout. And even they were impressed by how well Kilmar switches out an empty nag and reloads during the fight:cool:
 
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