Veterans describe killing during war

Rimbaud82 said:
There is more to movies than commercialised glorifications...cinema is an art form and at it's best it can deliver incredibly powerful anti-war stories. Of course, there is also an argument made by some that despite the best intentions of directors it inherently glamorises war, but I would certainly say that these films - as an example - provide a brutal depiction of war which leaves a lasting impression:

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I've heard Come and See is extremely disturbing.
 
Rimbaud82 said:
There is more to movies than commercialised glorifications...cinema is an art form and at it's best it can deliver incredibly powerful anti-war stories. Of course, there is also an argument made by some that despite the best intentions of directors it inherently glamorises war, but I would certainly say that these films - as an example - provide a brutal depiction of war which leaves a lasting impression:
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Not all warfighting is as grim as movies make out either. Yes there can be bad times, but firefighters aren't miserable when they fight fires. Doctors, paramedics and nurses aren't miserable 24/7 being around the sick and dying.

People who know what they are getting into and believe they can make a difference by fighting are not going to sit a theater of operations feeling sorry for themselves. Guys at the tip of the spear relish the challenges and the test that war brings.

Some of the best times of my life have been in the moments before/during/after a fucked up incident
 
BillytheFish said:
Not all warfighting is as grim as movies make out either. Yes there can be bad times, but firefighters aren't miserable when they fight fires. Doctors, paramedics and nurses aren't miserable 24/7 being around the sick and dying.

People who know what they are getting into and believe they can make a difference by fighting are not going to sit a theater of operations feeling sorry for themselves. Guys at the tip of the spear relish the challenges and the test that war brings.

Some of the best times of my life have been in the moments before/during/after a fucked up incident
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Yeah I imagine that's true as well, in fact I have heard that the new Peter Jackson film (the colourised WW1 film) They Shall Now Grow Old makes a point of showing that aspect of the First World War. Obviously can't speak from experience.

I suppose film still necessities a pretty narrow focus, so they will focus on an aspect of war which has the most impact for their purposes...especially if the purpose to be anti-war, and it is equally true that war does leave some people irreparably damaged, and can lead to horrific atrocities like those in Belarus during WW2 which are the subject of Come and See.

A film like on the other hand Jarhead is also pretty good at showing the boredom of sitting around waiting for stuff to to happen, from the perspective of the troops themselves, plus moments of levity (e.g. when they play american football, or when they all sing all to Ride of the Valkyries in Apocalypse Now - which I suppose is a comment in attitudes in the military in and of itself).
 
BillytheFish said:
Not all warfighting is as grim as movies make out either. Yes there can be bad times, but firefighters aren't miserable when they fight fires. Doctors, paramedics and nurses aren't miserable 24/7 being around the sick and dying.

People who know what they are getting into and believe they can make a difference by fighting are not going to sit a theater of operations feeling sorry for themselves. Guys at the tip of the spear relish the challenges and the test that war brings.

Some of the best times of my life have been in the moments before/during/after a fucked up incident
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That is bullshit. There is a documentary on netflix that covers SAS missions. Everyone of those guys came back with ptsd and most coped with alchohol or drugs. They were very open about it and it is a reality.
 
FightGuyOpenMind said:
They should stop making war movies. I don't agree with glamorizing the topic for public consumption, and profit.
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The problem with war movies (if not war writ large) is that those feelings of comradeship between soldiers and the bonds that are formed under unimaginable hardship are something distinct from "men in smoke filled rooms pushing pawns around a board".

People (men especially) are wired to respond to rousing speeches and guys committing heroics to protect their brothers in arms and make it home to the family. I don't know how you disentangle that from "War, what is it good for?" in a film, or in life.
 
El Chimpo said:
Sounds like someone didnt want to save private ryan..
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I never knew a Pvt Ryan. I've known some real WW2 vets, however.

I give all credit, and respect to a PFC Albert E. Schwab, WW2 Medal of Honor recipient.

If your account of the war comes from Steven Spielberg, I won't fault you for it.
 
You drink for fun before deployment. You drink to cope after.
 
Prefect said:
That is bullshit. There is a documentary on netflix that covers SAS missions. Everyone of those guys came back with ptsd and most coped with alchohol or drugs. They were very open about it and it is a reality.
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Lol ok then youre right, everyone at hereford and poole has ptsd then my bad
 
FightGuyOpenMind said:
I never knew a Pvt Ryan. I've known some real WW2 vets, however.

I give all credit, and respect to a PFC Albert E. Schwab, WW2 Medal of Honor recipient.

If your account of the war comes from Steven Spielberg, I won't fault you for it.
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My cousin has ptsd from being a sniper..was in Fallujah at the beginning...13 confirmed

So i know how it goes
 
Meh. Everyone handles it differently. I never had any issues with it. I have seen guys who seemed to enjoy that aspect (and they probably later in life are going to have guilt problems). For me, lets just say I never fired my weapon if unless there was a reason, and never had any guilt on any time I had to engage due to the circumstances. Death sucks yes, but but you should never feel guilty protecting yourself or your brothers.

Now sometimes innocent casualties happen. I have never been in that situation, although I have scene it. That would mess me up for life without a doubt.

The one thing that truly still haunts me is the guys I serve with being killed. It's hard and you don't have time to really cope and deal with it. And it often is more than 1 at a time or within a short time period. Then you get out and they are still dying.
 
Richmma80 said:
Some gang members and prison folk do it multiple times without batting an eyelas like those cartel guys or isis.
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Most of them will be Psychopaths, and the defining trait of such people is a complete lack of Empathy. So killing a human being for them is no more emotionally traumatic than swatting a fly is for you and I.

After WWII, the US Army conducted a wide ranging study on the effects of combat on soldiers. Thousands of veterans were interviewed by Psychiatrists. The doctors concluded that after six months of front line combat, 98% of soldiers were suffering from some level of stress-induced mental health disorder, what was known in layman's terms back then as, "battle fatigue".

The remaining 2% were violent Psychopaths. They were having the time of their lives:)
 
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Estemachine said:
I know some of you may completely disagree and that's what opinions are for, but imo war in general is absolute garbage, the idea that your views are better and if you don't do what "we" demand, we are going to go and kill your kind. In most cases killing innocent people, woman and children.

I don't blame it obviously in the man and woman that join the war, I blame it in the system and politicians that want something in return. They should be the ones doing all the killing.
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It's easy to say that, but it's really not that black and white. There have been many technological advancements, medical advancements etc, that have come directly as a result of war and some of histories most heinous atrocities. Some of which, likely would never have happened without them.

People love to say they would prevent certain events if they could, because it's the cool thing to say. But the reality is, remove those events from history and you may actually cause more harm and suffering, and to more people, than you prevented.
 
El Chimpo said:
My cousin has ptsd from being a sniper..was in Fallujah at the beginning...13 confirmed

So i know how it goes
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Respect to your cousin, but I'm not trying to consider your second hand experience.

That is my point exactly. You "know how it goes".
 
BB in Crazy!!!! said:
Why, as a vet I like movies that tell the story of our experience. I don't want to be forgotten just because it makes you feel unpleasant.
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If you're a vet, and you like the movies......then watch the movies. I really could care less. That is your position to have.

I don't like them, and I don't watch them.

I'm not trying to change your stance, and you replying isn't going to change mine. Vets, I think would respect this value; freedom of thought.
 
FightGuyOpenMind said:
They should stop making war movies. I don't agree with glamorizing the topic for public consumption, and profit.
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I disagree. Movies like Black Hawk Down, Lone Survivor, and We Were Soldiers does a great job of slamming home how real the people involved in the conflicts are.


My dad told me only two stories about his time in Vietnam and I never asked him again about his time there after those two re-tellings.
 
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