VERY interesting and educational...

[Mathias]

I would guess that their overall simple carb consumption is way lower than other cultures who have less atherosclerosis (Sweeds). It could be the saturated fat afterall, the lipid hypothesis is false but there is a correlation between ldl's and saturated fats (I think according to Berardi) and the Masai probably consume more saturated fat than any other culture.

I've heard that the Swedes have high rates of atheroschlerosis close to the United States because of their sweets consumption. IMO, for the Masai, it's the high sugar along with the high fat together. I believe Berardi mentions that carbs and fats are not good to have together. That could possibly be an argument for skim milk instead of whole milk. And high LDL cholesterol has never been confirmed to cause atheroschlerosis. That is also a theory/hypothesis.

 

[MikeMartial]

I've heard that the Swedes have high rates of atheroschlerosis close to the United States because of their sweets consumption. IMO, for the Masai, it's the high sugar along with the high fat together. I believe Berardi mentions that carbs and fats are not good to have together. That could possibly be an argument for skim milk instead of whole milk. And high LDL cholesterol has never been confirmed to cause atheroschlerosis. That is also a theory/hypothesis.

Interesting discussion. Just to throw my 2 cents in, I don't believe it's the lactose that's the issue so much as the high insulinogenic factor of the milk itself; the amount of lactose doesn't justify why milk causes such an insulin spike. A daily consumption at numerous intervals could explain the atherosclerosis.

 

[Mathias]

Interesting discussion. Just to throw my 2 cents in, I don't believe it's the lactose that's the issue so much as the high insulinogenic factor of the milk itself; the amount of lactose doesn't justify why milk causes such an insulin spike. A daily consumption at numerous intervals could explain the atherosclerosis.

Good point. I'd be interested to see some tests done on skim milk and whole milk to see if there is a difference in the insulinogenic factor. My best guess would be the whole milk would be lower because of the fat along with it.

 

[XTrainer]

The Paleo diet leaves out grains and dairy. Coincidentally, grains and dairy are the two most allergenic food groups. That could be a big hint that humans haven't physically adapted to them.

That's the Paleo argument we hear all the time...it is interesting to see it from another perspective, especially since a lot of us (raises hand) have no apparent grain/dairy allergies...perhaps that is a "big hint" that we have adapted to these foods...

Vedic, I see where you're coming from, but in searching for (an admittedly nonexistant) ideal of eating, it is interesting to see some of the pillars of what I consider to be a GREAT way of eating (Paleo) attacked in this manner. Sure, even if it totally got the dairy/grain/legume thing wrong, Paleo would still be an extremely healthy way to go...but perhaps by finding the weaknesses in Paleo eating we can further approach our individual ideal diets.

 

[redjako]

Maybe it's just me, but I got nothing out of reading that.

Somewhat interesting, but man...Nerd rage, what a term for Sexual Frustration huh.


Edit: Purple belt = gay

And this: is stupid from that FAQ:

Q: Doesn't raw milk contain hormones?

A: Yes, it has trace amounts of naturally occurring hormones and growth factors- key bioactive ingredients that make it such a valuable, healing food. Raw milk, especially that from cows fed organic green grass, isn't just a great tasting food, it's powerful medicine. That's likely one of the major reasons it's unavailable in so many states. After all, we can't have people healing themselves, now can we?

More like our whole culture was built for 20 years on NON FAT, so raw milk has a crappy market return..at least, that would be my assumption. I sure as hell can't find it, so I use whole organic.

 

[canadapride**]

Interesting discussion. Just to throw my 2 cents in, I don't believe it's the lactose that's the issue so much as the high insulinogenic factor of the milk itself; the amount of lactose doesn't justify why milk causes such an insulin spike. A daily consumption at numerous intervals could explain the atherosclerosis.

What kinda effects on insulin levels are we walking about here? Similar to the ones caused by sugar? White bread?

 

[Vedic]

nope

 

[MikeMartial]

What kinda effects on insulin levels are we walking about here? Similar to the ones caused by sugar? White bread?

Measuring a food's effect on insulin is a lot more valuable and specific that measuring GI; the problem being, there's not a whole lot of research into this area, and very few comparable charts are out there; most of the initial research comes from a 1997 AJCN study, but milk wasn't in the foods they tested.

Interestingly enough, this study points to whey as the insulinogenic component:

Glycemia and insulinemia in healthy subjects after lactose-equivalent meals of milk and other food proteins: the role of plasma amino acids and incretins -- Nilsson et al. 80 (5): 1246 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Here's Berardi on the topic:

"However, several studies since have shown that some low glycemic index foods have huge insulin responses! So the correlation between glycemic index and insulin response breaks down with some foods. For example, milk products have a very low glycemic index. But they promote insulin responses parallel to the highest glycemic foods. What's the deal? Well, it appears that there are several other factors that determine insulin release besides carb content and the rate of carb absorption.
This is why the insulin index was generated. This index actually measures insulin response to a food. So rather than assuming insulin response is correlated with carb absorption, these researchers decided to go ahead and measure it. And their results were eye opening!"

Nope

And yes, milk has been compared to white bread for it's ability as an insulin secretagogue.

 

[XTrainer]

Berardi also notes that carbs+protein=higher insulin response than carbs alone. However, I believe carbs+protein would have the lower GI.